Bilge keeler will I regret it?

Probably hardly noticeable difference to windward and may be less likely to roll when running down wind.Will you benefit from the twinkeel version by visiting places and drying out etc or is it only being considered because its available?

The handicap numbers for both versions should give you some indication of the performance.
 
Very nice looking boat.


Another for the list... though the engine access looks a bit shocking!
 
That's a lovely looking boat. If she had a tiller she'd be perfect to me. Regards bilge keels, the one nobody ever mentions is anti-fouling and scrubbing. If the CIA ever discover what it's like to scrub and scrape and then anti-foul between the keels of bilge keeler they will forget all about water-boarding.... :eek::eek:
 
You'll only regret it if you buy it with that attitude . . .

Scrubbing & anti-fouling between the keels may not be ideal if you are in mud, but on sand or a hard, it is a nice sheltered & cosy spot once you get in there. Getting out again may need a little effort tho'!

As others have said, there are many benefits to bilge keels, I wouldn't have anything else. But a lot depends on the sailing you do & where you do it. many of the harbours & anchorages around N Wales (where she is) dry out & bilge keels are really useful.

Get a copy of "A life, A Sail, a Changing Sea" by Lord Riversdale if you want to know more about twin keelers. He invented them & sailed oceans in the ones he built. Cmdr D A Rayner met him in Beaumaris in one of his designs & that in turn lead on to the start of Westerly Boats.
 
Bilge keels!
Dry out on sandy beaches
Lift out where you want without needing to-hire-buy-transport-a cradle
Access to certain bays-harbours-etc that might not be so easy for others
 
So surprised to see only one bilge keeler in Looe a few days ago, where they were needed whereas they are virtually all bilge keelers here.
 
We pulled into Bembridge harbour one night to wait for a weather front to go through before crossing the channel. Rowdy mobo rally on the pontoons which we didn't fancy rafting against. Instead picked up a private mooring and hoped the owner didn't come back at 8pm on a Friday with a dropping tide. An hour later we dried out on the sand. Left at 6am the following morning on the tide. With a fin we would have had to go alongside and hoped there was enough water. We like our twin keels and antifoul on the club hard standing between the tides.

As already mentioned the interior looks very tidy with some nice woodwork.

Pete
 
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Regret - every time you anchor and enjoy resting on the beach and saving mooring fees, every time you agonise over where to drop the hook - in case you get it wrong, every time you go alongside in a drying harbour and wonder if she will rest on the keel - or if the boat will be able to stand on the keel
Wonder about why you ever bothered with a keel boat for the three times a year you actually raced. Wonder on a cruise how much difference in pointing ability makes when you have tide and unfavourable wind to cope with. More likely to worry if you have enough diesel
 
KREW2 said:
I put Racylady on the market because I saw a Sovereign 32 I really liked the look of, nice lines, heavy and an encapsulated keel. Unfortunately the Sovereign 32 has since sold, so have two others I have recently seen advertised. There is however this http://www.western-horizon.co.uk/boat_details.php?boat_id=140
How much of a difference in upwind performance will there be.
Click to expand...

It all dependes on what you are comparing with and what use you make of your boat.

If you race your boat (and if not, why not?) or if you do longish beats whilst crusing , the difference will annoy you. The boat you indicate isnt one noted for its bilge keel performance like a Hunter or one of the later Moodies or a Fulmar which is not to say its noted as a bad performer. It simply isnt a name that springs to mind.

To put it another way, I've been out racing today against a mixed PY fleet inc bilge keelers. All points of sail and the elapsed time for a well sailed Hunter bilge compared to an equivalent fin is of the order of 10 to 15% overall.

So do the advantages in berthing, access to smaller ports etc outweigh what will be a slower boat? Up to you. Personally I've gone in the other direction from bilge to fin because I enjoy racing with the lads as well as cruising with swmbo - in fact I'm rapidly becoming obsessed with racing - and altogether too often I found I couldnt even make the mark before the tide turned against me in my last bilge. And that was a bl***y good bilge keeler.
 
She looks suspicioulsy like an Alan Hill design (same as the Tomahawk and Sabre) and so is likely to sail very well in either keel configuration. I don't think you will regret it.

I dont think you can quantify the difference in performance. Life isnt that simple. She will lose out in a strong wind beat....but then if you are cruising this is when you are likely to be in the bar :-)
 
Thanks for all the input.
Racing well, had I not sold Racylady I was going to start next year, bit long in the tooth now, but I got the bug crewing for others last summer, already booked to do the round the island next year, so if I buy a bilge keeler I will just have to continue crewing.
The engine has access through the cockpit http://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=106824, and it seems as if you buy this version you get a £4950.00 discount.
I sail on the south coast, with the occassional channel hop, the main reason for the change is to get a heavier more stable boat, swmbo doesn't like long beats so maybe it will be a good compromise, and I will motor sail when headed.
The only problem with this boat is the distance, both for viewing, and getting it down to the south coast.
The designer was Ian Anderson.
 
grumpy_o_g said:
Regards bilge keels, the one nobody ever mentions is anti-fouling and scrubbing. If the CIA ever discover what it's like to scrub and scrape and then anti-foul between the keels of bilge keeler they will forget all about water-boarding.... :eek::eek:
Click to expand...

You'd rather scrub and a/f the downhill side of a fallen-over fin keeler? ;->
 
Fantastic looking boat !

Would agree that there are so many considerations to take into account , particularly the type of sailing you intend to do.

I had a bilge keeled boat many years ago and hated the performance to windward and the slapping. But that's just me - I'm in it mainly for the sailing.

Despite being an East Coast mud dweller then and now, the only time I see a bilge keeler ( and there are loads) dry out is when they want to scrub off or have a drying mooring.

This convinced me that the benefits were probably well intentioned but illusionary.
 
Yes I agree, should I go ahead and buy this it would be because I like the sovereign as a long fin keeler, and this is the closest I can find at the moment. I didn't realise they slapped, and I really do not need bigle keels.
This is what I love about this forum, four hours ago I was convinced it was for me, but now look what you've done.
 
One thing I suspect you will learn to loathe is the brown gel coat. From that era it will powder something terrible and will be impossible to match any dings.
 
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