Betterment?

1bobt

1bobt

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Hi
Ive lost everything above deck in an incident, guardrails mast,boom furling genoe and main sail granny bars the lot the insurance company ,Who have been very good have settled the claim with the yard to a price close to £60,000
However they now claim betterment of 30% of the rig. I can understand that I should pay towards the rigging and sails, as they do age. The riggin is only 10 years old and the sail 9years. Remember the boat is only used for about 4-5 weeks a year. I only keep it as I wish to retire and liveaboard in the Med
Do you think it fair to reduce the value of the Mast and Boom and Vang,and back stay adjuster by 30% ?

cheers bobt
 
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I can understand it in relation to items such as standing rigging which have an accepted life, but to impose that on fixed parts like the mast and boom sounds like a rough deal. I'm sure that there will be plenty of precedents to judge this by.
 
It all depends on the terms and conditions of your insurance policy.

HOWEVER, if the loss is because of someone elses negligence you should have a claim against them for the 30% on the grounds that you had a working boat before they wrecked it so you want one now with no cost to you. This will/may involve a court case , the fees for which you will claim against your insurer (assuming you have legal cover), so what goes around comes around - talk to them, I am sure they will see sense.
 
Marsupial said:
It all depends on the terms and conditions of your insurance policy.

HOWEVER, if the loss is because of someone elses negligence you should have a claim against them for the 30% on the grounds that you had a working boat before they wrecked it so you want one now with no cost to you. This will/may involve a court case , the fees for which you will claim against your insurer (assuming you have legal cover), so what goes around comes around - talk to them, I am sure they will see sense.
Click to expand...

"Un-insured" Losses against the other party ( if there was one )
 
The mast has a finite life too - as indeed does the hull. A brand spanking new mast is undoiubtedly better than an old one and will increase the value of the boat. Hence betterment.

In any case you should be able to replace that lot at well under 60k.
 
Most riggers will recommend replacing wire rigging at 10 years of age, the fact that there are a lot of boats with 30 year old rigging notwithstanding. But I wouldn't think that this would apply to the mast and other deck gear, which have a lot longer life.
 
I appreciate you have only given a brief summary of the damage, and that there was probably more you have not mentioned, but I confess that I too was wondering how that list comes to £60,000, which is a heck of a claim.

That being said, unless your policy has 'new for old' in it, then betterment is an established principle and they are entitled to invoke it. Insurance is designed to put you back into the position you were in before the incident. I suppose you could try and negotiate the degree of betterment to a level that is more acceptable to you, but that is the best you can do I suspect.

Tim
 
St Margarets - say no more . . . .

In your policy wording

9. EXCESS AND DEDUCTIONS
(a) The excess specified in the Certificate of Insurance shall be deducted from all claims arising out of each and every incident, other than for total loss or constructive total loss of the Vessel, or total loss of items separately declared and valued in the Certificate of Insurance.

(b) Prior to the deduction under 9(a) and in addition all claims for loss of or damage to protective covers and sails may be subject to a deduction new for old not exceeding one third of the repair or replacement cost at Insurers discretion

SO this means they can only ask for sail covers and sails up to 30% - but this is at their discretion so as you were not invloved in the loss - it was an act of god - insist they return the vessel to a working condition and compensate you fully for the loss - if they dont complain to the ombudsman.

*&^% weasles!
 
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Hi

I am still in talks with insurance co. They now want me to pay over 5000euro in VAT on the betterment to my boat.. Is there anyone on the forum with an answer to my question, is VAT betterment?

cheers bobt
 
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I really do think you need to bring the insurance ombudsman in on this.

Many years ago a good friend of mine had to camp out in St wotsits offices to get a claim paid, they're not the best of best I am afraid.

Betterment is what insurers use to wriggle out of a claim.

Are you sure there is 20,000E less vat of sails and covers? it seems a lot.

The question of VAT is strange, do they think you are VAT registered?

I smell a big rat - a bit of collusion between the yard and and the insurer - call them to task
 
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Marsupial said:
I really do think you need to bring the insurance ombudsman in on this.

Many years ago a good friend of mine had to camp out in St wotsits offices to get a claim paid, they're not the best of best I am afraid.

Betterment is what insurers use to wriggle out of a claim.

Are you sure there is 20,000E less vat of sails and covers? it seems a lot.
Click to expand...


In my policy it say Rig and sails

So .They want me to pay 30% of cost of "Mast, boom,rollerfurling and back stay adjuster,boomvang, plus sails and running rigging !
cheers bobt
 
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