Beta engine panel goes dead

[Nicman]

I have a Betamarine engine and when I press the heat button for a few seconds the engine panel shows a few lights and the fuel level gauge works etc. But as soon as I start the engine, the panel goes totally dead and no lights and all gauges go to zero. However the engine keeps running with a dead panel. Any experts out there with a simple solution? Please help...!

 

[Graham_Wright]

Give Beta a ring.

 

[earlybird]

The panel will be connected to the engine wiring loom by means of an in-line multi-pin plug and socket, this will be close to the engine. First check should be to check the connections , pulling apart and reconnecting might be sufficient but check for damage, corrosion etc. Some installations have an extension harness, so two connectors rather than one. Wiring information is in the Beta engine manual on-line.
Other than the plugs & sockets, the "splashproof" panels, which don't have a key-switch, and which you might have, use relays. It is possible that a relay is not working correctly but the panel wiring diagrams are not easy to follow. I favour a dodgy plug and socket as the cause.

 

[Hydrozoan]

My Beta panel went dead as a result of a corroded connection where the panel power is taken off – in my case behind the alternator and below the heat exchanger, and probably caused/exacerbated by a small ‘weep’ from the H/E zinc.

 

[VicS]

I have a Betamarine engine and when I press the heat button for a few seconds the engine panel shows a few lights and the fuel level gauge works etc. But as soon as I start the engine, the panel goes totally dead and no lights and all gauges go to zero. However the engine keeps running with a dead panel. Any experts out there with a simple solution? Please help...!

You say completely dead but presumably you are still able to stop the engine from the panel ?

 

[Nicman]

Thanks for all your replies, your suggestions are appreciated.

Yes strangely enough I can still stop the engine from what appears to be a dead panel as it doesn't show any lights while engine runs, e.g. battery light, and green power light (the other 2 lights do not need to be on, as they are the low oil pressure and high water temp).

I phoned Beta who said to check the wiring connections in particular the 11 pin plug at the back which is part of what Beta call the "engine harness wiring".

I will try to do as much as I can, the problem is that access to the back and the sides is very limited so I will be considering removing some wooden structure around the engine which probably hasn't been removed for decades.

Thanks again, will update everyone in due course about progress.

 

[VicS]

Thanks for all your replies, your suggestions are appreciated.

Yes strangely enough I can still stop the engine from what appears to be a dead panel as it doesn't show any lights while engine runs, e.g. battery light, and green power light (the other 2 lights do not need to be on, as they are the low oil pressure and high water temp).

I phoned Beta who said to check the wiring connections in particular the 11 pin plug at the back which is part of what Beta call the "engine harness wiring".

I will try to do as much as I can, the problem is that access to the back and the sides is very limited so I will be considering removing some wooden structure around the engine which probably hasn't been removed for decades.

Thanks again, will update everyone in due course about progress.

It would be interesting to simulate a low oil pressure and high temperature warnings by shorting the sensors to earth. I suspect the lights may actually work.

I deduce from your initial post that you have a panel without a key switch . Is that correct?

It might be helpful to know what engine we are talking about although Beta wiring all seems to be pretty much the same apart from variations to suit different panels.

With luck Paul Rainbow will come this way before the end of the day to make some useful suggestions.

My first thoughts were that there is a bad connection in the negative " supply" to the panel. A black wire in the harness. If the warning lights work when "tested" as above it would support this idea although not prove it.



My immediate concern is my nearly new central heating boiler which failed yesterday afternoon after a 3 hour power cut. ......... First I knew was when B Gas phoned me to tell me it had brought up an alarm on their system!

 

[Hydrozoan]

As a PS, my problem was somewhat intermittent as the contact had corroded within the heat shrink, and was definitively revealed only by a firm tug on the cable. Good luck.

 

[earlybird]

On the keyless Beta panels, the stop button is connected directly to the incoming 12v +ve, which in turn powers the stop solenoid. Likewise the start button activates the start solenoid directly, so OP's panel seems OK in this respect
The lights, alarms, rev-counter etc receive power via a latching relay system which is activated by the start button and de-activated by the stop button. ( IIRC, the heater button also activates this system).
So it looks possible that the relay system is not functioning correctly. Could be either low supply voltage due to a bad connection, esp. during starter operation causing relay drop-out, or a dud relay.
Above pre-supposes that the panel is a keyless type.
NB. If the alternator is battery-sensed, it probably won't be charging either.

Try to attach my interpretation of the Beta diagrams.
(Bz means buzzer connection to save too many lines! the red & blue are just for clarity, not + & -)

 

[Nicman]

Yes my panel has no key, just 3 buttons arranged in a triangular fashion, heat, start and stop, various lights, a fuel level gauge and tacho. The tacho and level gauge do not show when the engine runs.

The engine is a 35hp Beta. I will check the contacts and relays as suggested.

Grateful for all the responses.

 

[VicS]

Yes my panel has no key, just 3 buttons arranged in a triangular fashion, heat, start and stop, various lights, a fuel level gauge and tacho. The tacho and level gauge do not show when the engine runs.

The engine is a 35hp Beta. I will check the contacts and relays as suggested.

Grateful for all the responses.

I have found a wiring diagram in an on line manual now although not one with a fuel level gauge.

As earlybird suggests if could be a faulty relay or a failed diode. It could also be a bad connection, as I suggested earlier, in the negative connection to the panel.

Check the power supply reaching the panel. Check with a test lamp between the brown/ white wire and the black wire. Don't use a digital multi-meter because they take so little current that they will give a correct reading even through a poor connection. . ( A test lamp and digital voltmeter in parallel is a good combination as the lamp takes some current while the meter reads the actual voltage)

If the power is OK try swapping the relays. If both are OK it'll make no difference but if one is faulty something different will happen. Maybe things will work but the panel not turn off when the stop button is pressed.

Check the diodes with the diode test range on a multi-meter

 

[Nicman]

Thanks for the relays suggestion, I will attempt to do that. The relays are just above the engine so access is not as difficult as checking the black 11 pin plug. I will probably do those first.

I will proceed to check out each item one at a time and hopefully something positive will come out of all the checks.

Access to the back of the engine is only possible by lifting the cockpit floor manhole. However I will only do that if all else fails as rains are forecast and I'm not sure what kind of gasket (or is it a rubber o-ring) is fitted to seal that door and indeed where to get a new one for a Nicholson 32. If it is an o-ring, then I may be able to just reuse the existing one.

Thanks again, will post an update.

 

[earlybird]

Thanks for the relays suggestion, I will attempt to do that. The relays are just above the engine so access is not as difficult as checking the black 11 pin plug. I will probably do those first.

Are you looking at the right relays? On my engine panel they hang off the wires very close behind the panel itself. To access them the panel needs to be unmounted, 4 screws, 1 at each corner,and pulled away from whatever surface it's on, unless you can get access from the rear of course.
The relays themselves are just ordinary change-over 12v. automotive type obtainable from any auto-electrical factor for a few ££, or even cheaper from Ebay. Beta will be a bit dearer.
The connections are Lucar spade terminals, so no problem there. I'd buy a couple of spares and just change them over.

 

[Shuggy]

I had the same problem with my keyless Beta panel two years ago. I traced it to a corroded spade connector behind the panel but I can’t remember what colour it was.

 

[Nicman]

Earlybird - sure, I saw the 2 cube-like relays behind the panel and like you said they are actually "hanging"...from the engine harness cabling, they way they are located, it seems there's no need to take the panel off. Thanks for this.

 

[Nicman]

Hi everyone, a positive update on my "dead" beta panel...well, when I carefully changed both relays (which hand off the harness) the panel now stays alive with engine running. I appears one solitary pin on one relay was corroded but I changed both relays as they looked very old.

As the engine ran, I quickly checked there was water coming out the back of the boat as it should plus water gurgled at the SW filter top cover, and all seemed ok. I was now in a state of euphoria and nearly about to start breakdancing and I nearly didn't hear the oh-so-gentle intermittent beep when the water hi-temp alarm went off after about 15 minutes of running time!

There was now no water coming out the back end and I had to stop the engine of course and screwing open the top cover, I found some seaweed debris in the intake SW filter which supplies the small SW pump mounted at front. Clearing this, I attempted to start the engine again but the water was still not flowing through the pipes as nothing showed through the plastic screen on the top of the filter.

Sorted one problem now have another, but anyway I want to thank everyone here who helped with the panel which is working now!

I will check the water pump impeller next, hopefully I will find something wrong here so renewing it will sort the new issue without further complications. The positive thing is the water temp alarm works!

Thank you all!