Beta 30 to replace a Volvo 2030B?

[Praxinoscope]

If the number of ways of re-badging an engine is a disadvantage then Kubota must be up there.

What a strange measure of performance - surely the more an engine, or anything is taken as a base - then its either as cheap as chips ..... or reliable.

Most sewing machines are extremely noisy - one might almost say they sound.... well rattly.

Speak you mind tillergirl

As the Kubota engine seems to survive not just in the various marinised forms, but also in the plant industry, I would think it a good indication of reliability, given the number of Beta‘s around one hears of comparatively few major complaints. Also tillergirl’s comment on annual heat exchanger servicing, this depends very much on the area the engine is used in, I have found that every 5 years is certainly adequate for a heat exchanger service, gained from 30 years of Beta engine use.

 

[Tranona]

Also tillergirl’s comment on annual heat exchanger servicing, this depends very much on the area the engine is used in, I have found that every 5 years is certainly adequate for a heat exchanger service, gained from 30 years of Beta engine use.

Much the same as the typical inspection intervals of the exhaust elbow of a Volvo, particularly if lightly used as in a yacht. The anode in the Beta is a negative as the penalty for ignoring it is as expensive as replacing an HE on a Volvo, which is less likely.

Overall there is really very little to choose between the 3 main small engines Volvo, Bet/Nanni and Yanmar. Each has their own pros and cons and overall running and servicing costs are little different. One thing is common - they will all outlast the engines they replace!

 

[Praxinoscope]

It’s only a five minute job to change the anode on the Beta, and I always have a new one in the spares box on board.
I agree with Tranona, there isn’t a lot to choose between the major engine suppliers, you pays your money and takes your choice.

 

[tillergirl]

It is Beta who say the heat exchanger is an annual service not me. Do you just ignore the guidance Prax? I decided against the Beta because of the rattle and the need for an anode (the Volvo designed out the requirement) and the annual requirement for servicing the heat exchanger. I am sure I would have been reasonably happy if I had opted for the Beta. The Volvo pricing set up was rather confusing at time until you got the bottom line from the Dealer's quote. It was a few pounds cheaper than the Beta but that was neither here or there.

For some reason the club run both launches on Betas. Unfortunately one has to suffer the rattle because in the hot weather the engine covers have to be partly opened so that they run comfortably cool enough.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Tillergirl, you forgot to mention the ‘or 250 hours’ for the heat exchange stack servicing.

 

[TNLI]

I'm just about to order a new Beta 30 with keel cooling, and obviously I've been doing some research. In general terms the Beta series have by far the best reputation of an small marine diesel used in the UK or EU, as regards reliability and cost of parts. The only other engine that has a similar reputation is the Bukh series. I did look long and hard at the 24 and 36hp versions, but Alas they are just too heavy and new ones are more expensive. Looking at small Volvo Penta diesels at present.

 

[Bobc]

Swapped my Volvo out for a Beta 3 years ago. The term "chalk and cheese" springs to mind.

Fabulous engine, fabulous service from both Beta and TS Marine (dealer/installer).

 

[Tranona]

I'm just about to order a new Beta 30 with keel cooling, and obviously I've been doing some research. In general terms the Beta series have by far the best reputation of an small marine diesel used in the UK or EU, as regards reliability and cost of parts. The only other engine that has a similar reputation is the Bukh series. I did look long and hard at the 24 and 36hp versions, but Alas they are just too heavy and new ones are more expensive. Looking at small Volvo Penta diesels at present.

Seems you have not done much "research" so far if you are only now looking at Volvo which vies with Yanmar as the biggest selling small marine diesel in the world because essentially they share the volume production boat market. By contrast Beta and Nanni concentrate on the small volume and replacement market, although their base Kubota engines are sold in large volumes in non marine applications. Would be interested in your evidence to support your claim about reputation as essentially there is little to choose between the 4 main brands on any measure. Of course there are individual differences, mainly in the marinisation but they are essentially commodities now and you can expect similar service from them all, and they all sell within the same small price envelope.

 

[tillergirl]

Tillergirl, you forgot to mention the ‘or 250 hours’ for the heat exchange stack servicing.

Yes, we all know that: it is the sooner NOT the longer!

 

[TNLI]

Seems you have not done much "research" so far if you are only now looking at Volvo which vies with Yanmar as the biggest selling small marine diesel in the world because essentially they share the volume production boat market. By contrast Beta and Nanni concentrate on the small volume and replacement market, although their base Kubota engines are sold in large volumes in non marine applications. Would be interested in your evidence to support your claim about reputation as essentially there is little to choose between the 4 main brands on any measure. Of course there are individual differences, mainly in the marinisation but they are essentially commodities now and you can expect similar service from them all, and they all sell within the same small price envelope.

I've given up on the Volvo D-30 as I can not find a keel cooled version. Not a fan of Yanmars as they are a closer tollerance engine, which is why they are not as reliable if you abuse them with bad fuel or overheating. The type of injection pump fitted will not simply block up when fed dirty fuel, it siezes up, same goes for head gasket failures. You can get a keel cooled version of the Yanmars, but I've just had too many problems with them failing in the past to be interested. In one instance with a 2GM the lift pump for reasons best known to Yanmar is so powerful it can pull bad fuel debris through a blocked secondary fuel filter, (The primary fuel filter had the wrong element in it so was not functionoing correctly), that incident resulted in a fully siezed injection pump and 2 injectors with blown tips.

The only other option is a new Thornycroft, as they are back in production by Marine Enterprises in the UK, alas it's around 2 grand more,. The new Thorny is based on the same block as used by Vetus in their M-310, and that's a real tough one.

 

[Tranona]

What evidence do you have to support your views on Yanmar engines? and why refer to the 2GM which went out of production 20 or more years ago and is nothing like the modern engines.

Look carefully at the Thornycroft as you might find it is not what you think it is. The firm you mention soes not make any engines but deals in a wide range of new and used engines.

 

[dankilb]

Was only kidding about the re-badged Perkins criticism (although I admit not knowing they were Japanese blocks, either).

Re-engining from a Perkins M50 in 2012, as the previous owners of our boat did, would’ve meant a D-4 of some sort - so I’m glad they went with the Beta for sheer simplicity (although no doubt a D4 would indeed be less ‘rattly’).

 

[TNLI]

What evidence do you have to support your views on Yanmar engines? and why refer to the 2GM which went out of production 20 or more years ago and is nothing like the modern engines.

Look carefully at the Thornycroft as you might find it is not what you think it is. The firm you mention soes not make any engines but deals in a wide range of new and used engines.

It takes 20 years to know if an engine that is not used every day is a good one or not, but in general terms any close tollerance engine will be more sensistive to abuse than an old generation loose tollerance engine. There are very few smaller marine diesel that are not medium to close tollerance in production, the only one is the Bukh.
The big advantages of tight fit engines is that they are more economic and make less noise, they are also lighter.

Marine Enterprises bought the design rights to the Thorncroft engines used by the RNLI in the last of their full displacement boats, the Rother 37. They do not manufacture blocks in the facility just North of Dorchester, The 2 variants use the Mits and the Ford block. There was a smaller Thorny that used the BMC 1500D, but they are not selling new versions of that model that was used in the Moody 36. I've been there to look around and talk to the engineers, but that was before getting funding for a new engine.

Very few small marine engine manufacturer seem to be making the main blocks, apart from BUKH, they just marinise a truck engine. That's why it is important to find out which exact block is involved, as you want it to be a well known one.

 

[TNLI]

It is Beta who say the heat exchanger is an annual service not me. Do you just ignore the guidance Prax? I decided against the Beta because of the rattle and the need for an anode (the Volvo designed out the requirement) and the annual requirement for servicing the heat exchanger. I am sure I would have been reasonably happy if I had opted for the Beta. The Volvo pricing set up was rather confusing at time until you got the bottom line from the Dealer's quote. It was a few pounds cheaper than the Beta but that was neither here or there.

For some reason the club run both launches on Betas. Unfortunately one has to suffer the rattle because in the hot weather the engine covers have to be partly opened so that they run comfortably cool enough.

Heat exchangers last a very long time, IF you change the coolant every year along with the anode. It also helps to stop corrosion if you add a small amount, (5 to 10%), or soluble machine oil. The other big mistake owners make is topping up with tap water. I always use distilled or filtered rain water.
If it's warm enough, try avoiding using anti freeze, just use the soluble oil. The reason for that is partly that the hoses and seals last slightly longer, but if you get unlucky and have a small head gasket leak, the anti freeze will prove very bad news when it gets in the oil, as it trashes the function of the various additives that help an oil function. It's regarded as the worst possible contaminant in oil by all the oil labs, and is far worse than fuel or water contamination, some of which will evapourate off during a good run.

If you have an older or high time diesel that is a bit of a rattler, make sure your oil is thick enough and not thinned out by diesel getting past the seals inside the injection or lift pumps. A lot of folks use SAE 30 during the winter which is perfectly OK, but is a tad thin for use in the summer under higher loadings. You can buy mongrade SAE 40 and even 50 grade marine oils. In general terms multi grade oils do not last as long as single grade ones. The reason is they contain viscosity improver additives.

 

[Tamar]

So, Sunday go to start engine and the Volvo 2030B Backfires, ejecting black smoke from the air intake and also fails to start. It was working okay Saturday...

An engineer is going to look at it but it may need money spending on a 25 year old engine.

So thoughts turn to a replacement. I do not like Volvos spares prices and some design choices leave a little to be desired - e.g. Boots on the heat exchanger with the alternator and relays under the wet bits. The high rise exhaust elbow is shockingly expensive.

Yanmars are nice and light. Although their spares prices seem expensive too.

So thinking of the Beta 30. Spares seem okay. NIce touches like the oil drain pump and the high rise exhausts are not too expensive and made from Stainless.

So, any feedback, reasons to get a Beta 30 or not? Anything to change my mind?

Ta.

Are you sure it's terminal? Sounds like a blocked fuel filter or something along them lines. Get a decent engineer to look at it before you condemn it.

 

[TNLI]

Never known a blocked fuelfilter cause smoke. Wild guess but the injection pump might be kaput. They cost around 3 to 400 quid for a good recondition unit fro ASAP, BUT when you change it make sure to fit a new lift pump. They only cost 30 to 40 quid from a good dealer.
Black smoke when in gear can be caused by overloading due to a fouled prop or serious gearbox problem, BUT it can also result from more serious main block failures. You can tell the difference by sniffing the smoke to see if it smells of oil or diesel.

Engine faults – Cox Engineering

 

[gregcope]

Thanks @TNLI for the cox link.

An engineer has said it has low compression on two of three cylinders. It also makes a mechanical clicking sound which could be a valve issue.

So its a head issue or worse!

 

[TNLI]

Yey, does s

Thanks @TNLI for the cox link.

An engineer has said it has low compression on two of three cylinders. It also makes a mechanical clicking sound which could be a valve issue.

So its a head issue or worse!

Yep is does sound like a head off job, and if you really want to keep it long terms, then the mains, timing chain and crank shaft all need checking.

How many hours has it done, and was it used a lot below 1500 RPM ?? Max RPM for most betas is around the 3500 mark, so max continous would be about 3000, and if you use less than half of that figure, it will foul the cylinders up if you don't do an occasional max continous run. When I skippered a fishing boat many moons ago, we did a fair amount of trolling at around 1300 RPM, so had a rule to use 2500 for 30 mins every 10 hours.

If an engine is 25 years old it does not mean the main bearings will be shot, as that has more to do with the quality of the oil and filters than age, BUT with the top end age does matter far more unless the engine is inhibited during the winter or run every month. Cold starts, too many stop starts and using the wrong API spec oil all matter. If you buy engine oil for an out of warranty engine, make sure it is made by a major oil company. By major I mean Castrol, Mobil, Shell and Liqui Moly. I prefer using Liqui Moly as I know their R & D chaps from when I was living in Germany.

 

[jwfrary]

My main gripe with the beta is the rubbish alternator options.

The yanmar comes with a 120amp valeo and balmar do a kit so you can just upgrade the regulator without the bother of replacing the lot.

Yanmar wiring is arguably better.

Theres little to seperate the engines themselves but the yanmar hx is better in terms of durability.

 

[Tranona]

My main gripe with the beta is the rubbish alternator options.

That is only an issue if you have very large battery banks. On the sort of boats the 30 is aimed at the standard 70A alternator is fine (and a 120A is optional). My last Volvo D1 30 had a 115A, but never saw anything more than 40A output for a few minutes at start up. 285 Ah bank simply can't absorb high rates. Current boat has 190Ah bank so did not order the option.