Best way to attach halyard to bosun's chair

makingplansfor said:
I find myself worryingly ignorant of this subject and appreciative of the clearly good advice, I would have happily used a shackle! It prompted me to google and search this forum for some definitive first principle guidance, with limited success. Clearly you would not send someone up the mast without an second and independent safety line, so I assume that we need at least 2 people on deck, each operating separate winches with the halyard secured at a length that would stop short of the man aloft hitting the deck! My questions therefore: 1) are my assumptions correct, 2) is there anything else I should consider and 3) would it be acceptable to use an electric windlass to take some of the effort out of the winching?
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Did this last week with just two persons, son up the mast and me on the winch. I suggested the reverse but he wanted up. A bit slow as each 4-5 ft rise I took up the slack on the second safety line and cleated it at the mast, then back to the coachroof winch. He was on climbing type harness: he prefers it to the bosuns chair.

I always give each of the hoisting lines separately a good full-weight bounce at a few inches above deck level. Rather something broke there than when 50 ft up.
 
I've seen a number of boatswain's chairs incorrectly made. The rope should be continuous crossing beneath the seat. Many years ago as a MN cadet, we would never be hauled aloft by a winch. We would haul ourselves aloft, then pass the running part of the gantline or hallyard behind our head, under the seat, in front of our legs and back up to the sheet bend. This could then be paid out to lower the chair in a controlled manner. Not sure if I could still do it now though.
 
I am happy to use either a shackle, taped up, or a knot that I know very well and understand, also taped up.

The knot I know best for this is the bowline.
Other knots may be superior if you are familiar with them, but this is not a job for trying a 'new to me' knot.

Some halyard are quite stiff where they've been in the sun and do not knot well IMHO.

PS, take a knife up, in case you need to get the tape off one of the shackles....
 
jwilson said:
.... my son who was a rockclimbing as well as a sailing instructor for a while insists on the doubled figure of 8s.... though in some springy climbing ropes it does seem reluctant to stay tight.....
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Son is quite right. There have been numerous reports over the years of bowline knots 'inverting' during rock/ice climbing, occasionally with serious consequences. Add to that the knowledge that a double-figure-of-eight retains considerably more of the ultimate strength of the rope than a bowline, and that one can more readily see from a distance that a d-f-o-8 is improperly tied/working loose compared with a bowline, and it becomes clear why climbing schools and outdoor pursuits centres the length of the land have preferred the d-f-o-8 for decades..... no, half-a-century.

However, we boaties are nothing if not conservative - if not reactionary.

When it comes to an informed choice of 'what's best' for the safety of one's offspring, the Double Figure of Eight is demonstrably more secure, more reliable, and more professional.
 
Slow_boat said:
I have an XM chair and a couple of climbers ascenders, one on a home made stirrup and one on a short strop carabeenered to the chair. I climb rope halyard which is tied around the boom and winched tight, by standing up and sitting down, moving each ascender in turn with swmbo taking the slack on spinnaker halyard or topping lift tied to lifejacket safety harness c/w croths straps if she is around. It's no effort at all.

I'm terrified of heights but managed to get to the top of my radar reflector to tie of lazy jack eyes for my home made stack-pack last weekend, on the hard, solo and with no problems except rapid breathing!
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Exactly the same set up with two Petzl ascenders
 
Uricanejack said:
Once up on a time long ago.
The traditional knot was a double sheet bend.
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Agree. Some seamanship text books clearly state a double sheet bend should be used; my 1950 Boatswains manual says " the gantline is always attached to the chair by means of a double blackwall hitch." Common thread is that nobody recommends a bowline. Recently a serious accident happened when a crewmember was being hoisted aloft with a powered winch. The winch ran out of control and slammed the unfortunate sailor into the sheeve at the top (fatal? - need to check) Always hoist the crewmember with a manual winch, or let them haul themselves up.
 
Every day countless people working on large yachts get hoisted up the largest masts in the world on powered winches sitting in harnesses or chairs tied on to a single halyard with a bowline. A few might use a double figure of eight, but eventually they'll give up on it because it takes so long to tie. Accidents are almost unheard of, even with some pretty dodgy practices at times.
 
Woodlouse said:
Every day countless people working on large yachts get hoisted up the largest masts in the world on powered winches sitting in harnesses or chairs tied on to a single halyard with a bowline. A few might use a double figure of eight, but eventually they'll give up on it because it takes so long to tie. Accidents are almost unheard of, even with some pretty dodgy practices at times.
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I think you will find on many big yachts, it is normal to use the shackles, as it is bad practice to tie knots in the dyneema (or whatever) rope.
On really big boats, the mere weight of a bloke won't pull the knots properly tight anyway. Although modern rope is probably smaller and more supple than when I went up the mast on Creighton's.
Safety in these matters is not about using one idea, it is about being thorough and careful.
Actually, thinking about it maybe on Creighton's we used a screwgate crab through the fixed eye in the snap shackle? And a proper climbing harness.
 
Don't rely on the shackle - I have seen them fail. Bowline or if you are a climber then figure of 8 retrace. Most boats I have worked on tend not to even rely on a bosuns chair, they have failed in the past. My personal preference is the load on a bosuns chair and a climbing harness as back-up. Then either 2 halyards or 1 halyard and a static line system. The second option is easier if there is just 2 of you, because you can't safely operate 2 halyards at once.
 
nigelmercier said:
I've been thinking all along, what is wrong with using the snap shackle? Just don't pull the pin!
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It's possible for the pin or lanyard on a pin to snag on something, releasing it.
That's why I tape the shackle.

Unless it is a very small boat, the weight of me is pretty trivial compared to the load on a halyard.
 
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