Best Practise with Mooring Lines

[BobPrell]

This is part of a post in Scuttlebutt.

Crew member at stern and bow both jumped onto pontoon awaiting the warps . Stern warp made good.
To my horror the bow line was thrown to the crew member on the pontoon. This was caught and .... he continued to pull all of the warp off the boat.
.....It transpired that the crew member up front forgot to attach the bow warp before throwing it ashore.
Needless to say he was well embarrassed and deeply apologetic.

I did not want to drift the thread in Scuttlebutt. Nor do I want to sound personally critical of how Fenders handles his vessel, but the post reminds me of a situation I have observed many times.

Skippers and crew often make fast a warp to their vessel, then pass the line ashore for someone to make fast to the jetty/bollard/cleat. Don't people realize that when they do this, they have surrendered control of that line, and thus of their vessel, to someone NOT on the vessel, and often not one of the crew?

Most often a bowline or spliced eye is used, which cannot be untied under strain. This means the crew cannot cast off if they want to.

I read a seamanship manual once that stated best practise is to put an end of the line ashore, and keep the rest of the line aboard the vessel. It has taken me quite a few years to learn why this is best. It is because the crew can then take in or pay out line as they choose, and keep full control. It should not be easy for anyone ashore to cast off a line without the active consent of the vessel's crew.

I have been a crew at the stern of a vessel, I passed a line ashore, and the person on the pontoon tried to tell me to tie the line to my vessel. I refused. My skipper seemed not to understand why when I tried to explain afterwards.

I am looking forward to Olewill's usual wisdom on this.

 

[westernman]

I entirely agree with your post. On my boat we always pass a line a shore which already has a bowline tied in it and direct whoever is receiving it to drop it over the bollard of our choice.

However that did not stop us screwing up our parking manouevers last time coming back to our home berth. There was a significant cross wind and our usual procedure is to loop a line around the windard bollard to stop the bows blowing off.

The new crew after having had everything clearly explained to him looped the line over the bollard as forseen and then spent the next minutes unravelling the mess instead of hauling in the slack. Result - effectively no bow line and paint work scraped on the downwind pontoon.........

 

[l'escargot]

An alternative is to pass the end of the line ashore and ask that it be placed around/through something and handed back. This has the added advantage of having the end secured to your boat and still being able to make adjustments without getting off

 

[VicS]

best practise is to put an end of the line ashore, and keep the rest of the line aboard the vessel.

That is correct

It is however sometimes, as a temporary measure, useful to make the line fast to the vessel first then put a loop round the cleat ashore , or other vessel, and back again ie as a slip line. The crew can then easily adjust or even cast off again if necessary.

Use of a slip line for more than a temporary arrangement is considered bad as it can lead to chafe and wear in the middle of a warp.

Worst of all is to wind the surplus warp around and around the shore/other vessels cleat or to leave it in a heap on the other boat's deck or on the pontoon/ quayside.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

That is fair and dandy when one has crews available to both attach a line to a pontoon and then take up slack and make off on the yacht.

First of all my lines do not have spliced eyelets or bowlines in them when berthing at my own or any other berth, at least initially. I set up my stern, bow and a mid ship line with the end of the line cleated off at the end, coiled, led outside everything and brought to the mid ship area.

Once along side the crew steps ashore with the coiled lined, walks to the appropriate fastening point, takes up the slack and makes off ashore. I end up with my yacht secure and all the excess line ashore. Then at my leisure I refasten the lines such that there is an appropriate fastening at the dock side and all the excess back onboard.

This methods works single handed, or fully crewed, or with any number in between. I often find on other peoples yachts where the OP's method is used less than slick performance. So, no thanks, the "seamanship" way, doesn't work for me.

 

[Plevier]

That is fair and dandy when one has crews available to both attach a line to a pontoon and then take up slack and make off on the yacht.

First of all my lines do not have spliced eyelets or bowlines in them when berthing at my own or any other berth, at least initially. I set up my stern, bow and a mid ship line with the end of the line cleated off at the end, coiled, led outside everything and brought to the mid ship area.

Once along side the crew steps ashore with the coiled lined, walks to the appropriate fastening point, takes up the slack and makes off ashore. I end up with my yacht secure and all the excess line ashore. Then at my leisure I refasten the lines such that there is an appropriate fastening at the dock side and all the excess back onboard.

This methods works single handed, or fully crewed, or with any number in between. I often find on other peoples yachts where the OP's method is used less than slick performance. So, no thanks, the "seamanship" way, doesn't work for me.

+1

I agree with OP that it can lead to problems if the boat end is bowlined on, I don't like that, but if the boat end is cleated correctly (and no locking turns!) you can undo it quickly if you have to. If OP is suggesting having someone just standing holding it on board until after it's been attached on shore I don't like that. Sorry if I've misinterpreted you.

 

[boaterbaz]

+1 for old boots, get ropes ashore asap and tidy up after. Ropes should IMO be bare ended on the quay or pontoon and made up on board. No trip hazard on quay. Pet hate No 2, using each end of a rope. Get enough strings to do the job!

 

[dslittle]

Once along side the crew steps ashore with the coiled lined, walks to the appropriate fastening point, takes up the slack and makes off ashore. I end up with my yacht secure and all the excess line ashore. Then at my leisure I refasten the lines such that there is an appropriate fastening at the dock side and all the excess back onboard.

This methods works single handed, or fully crewed, or with any number in between. I often find on other peoples yachts where the OP's method is used less than slick performance. So, no thanks, the "seamanship" way, doesn't work for me.

+1. We normally sail two handed and this is the only safe way that we moor up. Once the boat is secure (and we have relaxed) I set all of my lines the way that I want them depending on the length of stay and conditions.

 

[BobPrell]

That is fair and dandy when one has crews available to both attach a line to a pontoon and then take up slack and make off on the yacht.

First of all my lines do not have spliced eyelets or bowlines in them when berthing at my own or any other berth, at least initially. I set up my stern, bow and a mid ship line with the end of the line cleated off at the end, coiled, led outside everything and brought to the mid ship area.

Once along side the crew steps ashore with the coiled lined, walks to the appropriate fastening point, takes up the slack and makes off ashore. I end up with my yacht secure and all the excess line ashore. Then at my leisure I refasten the lines such that there is an appropriate fastening at the dock side and all the excess back onboard.

This methods works single handed, or fully crewed, or with any number in between. I often find on other peoples yachts where the OP's method is used less than slick performance. So, no thanks, the "seamanship" way, doesn't work for me.

I'm glad to hear you have developed a method that works for you. If so, stick with it.

If you end up with all excess line aboard, why not start and proceed that way unless compelled to do otherwise?

My OP was not meant to be a description of how to get alongside and secure, only one aspect of it.

If you observed less than slick performance, was that caused by the method? I see less than slick performance of very good methods reasonably often.

 

[Lakesailor]

If you end up with all excess line aboard, why not start and proceed that way unless compelled to do otherwise?

.....because he has developed a method that works for him. Which he will stick with.

Which is what you said.

 

[BobPrell]

.....because he has developed a method that works for him. Which he will stick with.

Which is what you said.

Oh yeah. That was meant for anyone else who is still developing. I Think.

 

[Seajet]

One point is that if trying to get a line to someone ashore, you can't throw the end of a line, you have to throw a coil and if it's a stranger hope they listen to you and pass it back; they often belay it then pass the end back !

Basically I just concentrate on arriving neatly, then go and sort the lines properly ASAP.

One little bee in my bonnet is that sailing school boats usually have say 6 fit ( I mean healthy, not attractive ! ) youngish blokes, so on MOB tests one has the luxury of a spare bod who can just stand pointing to the 'casualty', another to assign to the MOB button on the plotter and handle the radio etc, with an army like that one can do anything !

Not so in the real world with just self and either my girlfriend who doesn't take an interest, or a non-sailing chum.

I was quite impressed when I did my course with the sadly now defunct Solent School of Yachting, I was warned that if I let on I usually sailed with just my fiancee, the examiner would make me do the MOB singlehanded; I was happy to do so, as not only was it a fair test, I found it easier to just do things rather than give orders to people of varying abilities and hope they got it right.

Oh and I completely agree about not leaving a coil or even worse knitting around the cleat on pontoons or shore, the first sign of cluelesness...

 

[onesea]

That is fair and dandy when one has crews available to both attach a line to a pontoon and then take up slack and make off on the yacht.

Agree there after that or method varies with the weather and current.

Often offers of help are refused, so my crew who know the situation reminisce in control. Before now I have been known to through the stern rope at "helpers" t o get them out of the way.

Tidying up at the end.

.....because he has developed a method that works for him. Which he will stick with.

Which is what you said.

Mine is simple alongside no damage, no shouting, no chafing and no snatching our we got it wrong!

 

[rotrax]

+1. We normally sail two handed and this is the only safe way that we moor up. Once the boat is secure (and we have relaxed) I set all of my lines the way that I want them depending on the length of stay and conditions.

+1. We use the centre cleat, take the line ashore and take to a cleat or bollard aft. It is then made off. First mate turns out a little and motors against it. This brings us alongside, and holds us against the spring. Stern line next, then bow and then sort out the springs. No doubt we would do it differently if we had a crew, but this way is best for us short handed with a heavy long keeler.

 

[concentrik]

+1. We use the centre cleat, take the line ashore and take to a cleat or bollard aft. It is then made off. First mate turns out a little and motors against it. This brings us alongside, and holds us against the spring. Stern line next, then bow and then sort out the springs. No doubt we would do it differently if we had a crew, but this way is best for us short handed with a heavy long keeler.

Likewise. It's quick and easy, uses just one line and one crew and works whether you're being blown on or off or along. You can then take as long as you like to faff around with bow/stern lines, she's not going anywhere....

 

[Frankie-H]

Don't people realize that when they do this, they have surrendered control of that line, and thus of their vessel, to someone NOT on the vessel, and often not one of the crew.
.

Often thank goodness for that.

If you don't want the help of people on the pontoon. Simply give them the loose end of a line, which is not attached. Once they have realised that the stupid crew has not attached the line, you have been able to sort it our yourself.

 

[James_Calvert]

An alternative is to pass the end of the line ashore and ask that it be placed around/through something and handed back. This has the added advantage of having the end secured to your boat and still being able to make adjustments without getting off

Boaterbaz won't like this, but I go one further. When feasible, have the line made fast rather than just passed around, and then take it back/forward as a spring. Also removes the issue of chafe. But I'm not claiming it's the right solution for every situation.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I'm glad to hear you have developed a method that works for you. If so, stick with it.

If you end up with all excess line aboard, why not start and proceed that way unless compelled to do otherwise?

My OP was not meant to be a description of how to get alongside and secure, only one aspect of it.

If you observed less than slick performance, was that caused by the method? I see less than slick performance of very good methods reasonably often.

The objective of coming along side is not to maintain control of the lines at all times from the yacht, but to maintain control of the vessel at all times by restraining her from the effects of wind and current.

There is more opportunity to lose control when both ends of the line are not attached and two humans have to make decisions. The less than slick performance is usually caused by: poor briefing by the skipper, inexperienced crews, assumptions being wrong, lines not being free to run.

I use the method you describe in canals and also when sailing onto a berth. In both cases I may need to control the yacht's speed / position due to external factors and its easier if the end is made off ashore and the slack worked back.

With a regular crew its quite easily to come alongside, make off as you describe and pull the line into the yacht and make off. However, years of sailing into different ports (round Britain and Europe) has confirmed that my way is what I find best. Its not the only way by far, nor am I stuck in rut, but it serves well for most scenarios.

 

[William_H]

This is part of a post in Scuttlebutt.



I am looking forward to Olewill's usual wisdom on this.

Now I feel obliged to say something when I have nothing to say.
My experience is limited to small boats and in fact I seldom tie up rather operate my own boat out of a swing mooring.
I think I would always have the inboard end of any mooring rope firmly attached. I usually just have the mooring line passed around a bollard and back to the boat with an eye to casting off from the boat. If it were a more permanent tie up then yes a loop in the jetty end of an overlong mooring line and tighten up or manage the boat by using a horn cleat on the boat.

My best experience of tieing up was few years back when my son announced he wanted to take some friends out for a sail. I took this as an opportunity to go single handed for a sail. It is easy to rig and cast off but not so easy to pick up mooring single handed under sail and furl the main.
So I had a lovely little sail. Son's friends were late. I got bored sailing and went to the club jetty to hose the boat down. I tied a single light line to the bow. Jumped off and hosed it down. I had left the main and small jib up and the tiller free. Now a hose gets at an oleman's bladder and I dashed off to the loo.
On return the boat had departed without me. Of course there was wisdom from the club balcony like "hey Willy your boat has gone"
Well I watched it for a bit. It sailed out smartly and fast then for its own reasons it gybed and headed straight for the jetty I was on. Well perhaps I can fend it off thought I. About 6 metres from the jetty however it decided to tack and headed out again . It completed something like 3 circuits in the near viscinity. Fortunately a friend appeared on his similar sail boat and I begged help. A lift in fact out to my boat. Mine was still sailing very fast and we had no hope of catching it so it was a case of cutting it off. We passed bow to bow at a closing speed of probably more than 10 knots and I leaped into the cockpit.
Thank goodness no life lines at cockpit. it was a scary crash landing but no injuries.
I grabbed the tiller and sailed away as if nothing had happened. Son turned up and I went home a little shaken.
So don't ask me about tieing up olewill

 

[little_roundtop]

I've been following this thread with some interest. I appreciate the mainly UK based membership and the sensible use of bollards or cleats on pontoons and quays. Here in Greece though you're as likely as not to find rings; large ones bolted to the front face of concrete quays and small ones used on marina pontoons.

I would respectfully suggest that the only method that works well with rings is to secure one end of the warp to the boat, throw the free end to someone ashore, get them to feed it through the ring and then throw the line back. That's certainly how most yachties cope with rings over here.

Oh, and that's true whether coming alongside or mooring stern-to your own anchor.