best outboard for First 211 in tidal area

[jaziniho]

Looking for recommendations for best outboard for a Beneteau First 211, to be used in the very strongly tidal areas around Conwy / Anglesey etc

Will it benefit significantly from one of the 'sailpro' type models that the likes of Tohatsu do, or would that only matter for bigger heavier boats?

Does 6HP seem sufficient, any larger is a big bump up in weight on the back....

Are there any other manufacturers that have similar 'sail' / high thrust models in the right weight range?

 

[Minerva]

Low weight & high thrust - You have just perfectly described an electric outboard!

 

[fredrussell]

Would have thought the Tohatsu 6 with sail drive prop would be just the thing. I had a 8hp four stroke on a 23 footer - it was too much weight and unnecessarily powerful.

 

[jwilson]

I doubt if much more than 4hp is really need to push a First 211, a fairly light boat. But as most 6hp outboards are the same basic engine and thus size/weight as 4hp versions you may as well go for 6. 4hp was certainly plenty for a similar sized/weight boat many years ago in the Bristol Channel, possibly faster tides than the Menai Strait.

 

[LittleSister]

Will it benefit significantly from one of the 'sailpro' type models that the likes of Tohatsu do, or would that only matter for bigger heavier boats?

You definitely should get a 'saildrive'/'sailpro' type model. (Various manufacturers use different names to indicate these.) These are effectively lower geared (by a shallower pitched prop), giving you the higher thrust you need, instead of potential speed you will never reach. Otherwise your outboard engine will never reach its maximum power revs, so you'll be doubly disadvantaged - poorer acceleration and lower top speed.

 

[TSB240]

We used to keep our similar Trapper TS240 lift keeler on the Menai.

6hp with a saildrive prop is the absolute minimum.

I eventually found a nearly new second hand 9.8 hp two stroke. This gave me far more confidence in our striong tidal area and I was able to retro fit a decent outpur 12v charging kit.

Having a heavy 4 stroke on the transom of 211 will destroy the sailing performance with transom drag.

We could gain a knot when sailing by removing and stowing in a locker. Easier with 2 strokes as their stowage position is not critical.

 

[jaziniho]

Consensus seems to be a 6HP with sail drive / sail pro option is the way to go.

6 HP not too heavy for getting on and off the back.

Will look to see if I can find the Tohatsu in stock somewhere. There's a Suzuki 6HP Longshaft locally, but think that's without sail prop, but I guess that could be switched?

Anyone got enough expertise to know if the Tohatsu sail pro models are geared differently, or if it's just prop + alternator that's different from regular?

Also any thoughts appreciated on whether the extra longshaft option is worth looking at for something like a first 211?
It's got vertical sliding rail for outboard, so can be set pretty low to water anyway....

I've read stuff suggesting that too low in the water isn't good for 'exhaust pressure' but with a few waves and the boat bouncing around a bit...

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Consensus seems to be a 6HP with sail drive / sail pro option is the way to go.

6 HP not too heavy for getting on and off the back.

Will look to see if I can find the Tohatsu in stock somewhere. There's a Suzuki 6HP Longshaft locally, but think that's without sail prop, but I guess that could be switched?

Anyone got enough expertise to know if the Tohatsu sail pro models are geared differently, or if it's just prop + alternator that's different from regular?

Also any thoughts appreciated on whether the extra longshaft option is worth looking at for something like a first 211?
It's got vertical sliding rail for outboard, so can be set pretty low to water anyway....

I've read stuff suggesting that too low in the water isn't good for 'exhaust pressure' but with a few waves and the boat bouncing around a bit...

Think you will find that 6HP 4T Mercury. Mariner, Tohatsu all same engine. Don't think the engine gearing is any difference to basic models but please checking. Sail drive props much bigger blade area and modified pitch. Downside more drag if left in the water sailing.

 

[fredrussell]

Think you will find that 6HP 4T Mercury. Mariner, Tohatsu all same engine. Don't think the engine gearing is any difference to basic models but please checking. Sail drive props much bigger blade area and modified pitch. Downside more drag if left in the water sailing.

Indeed. I have a feeling it’s only the bigger 8hp and upwards ‘high thrust’ outboards that have a different ratio gearbox.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Indeed. I have a feeling it’s only the bigger 8hp and upwards ‘high thrust’ outboards that have a different ratio gearbox.

Provided you can buy a suitably pitched prop for the higher prop shaft speed, that shouldn't matter. I think the OP will have to look at props from 3rd party suppliers, maybe try Polastorm. That may be the limiting factor with the choice of engine. It may be necessary to go for an 8hp to get the choice of props. Personally I would say that’s a good thing, unless you’re racing. Then, you could use a 3.3hp 2 stroke just for that, and have a correctly propped 8hp for cruising. It’s not the going you need power and grip for, it’s the stopping and turning.

 

[fredrussell]

Hanging a 40-50kg 8hp off the back of a sporty 21ft boat is bonkers though. I’d start with the 6hp saildrive Tohatsu and see how that goes. I’d be surprised if OP needs more.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I understand the weight issue, I have a trimaran. An 8hp is at the lower end of that weight. A used 2 stroke is lighter. And you may well be surprised about what is needed to control the boat. It would achieve hull speed with about 3 hp. But you’d never be able to get the bow up into a 20 knot cross wind.

 

[SteveA]

Looking for recommendations for best outboard for a Beneteau First 211, to be used in the very strongly tidal areas around Conwy / Anglesey etc

Will it benefit significantly from one of the 'sailpro' type models that the likes of Tohatsu do, or would that only matter for bigger heavier boats?

Does 6HP seem sufficient, any larger is a big bump up in weight on the back....

Are there any other manufacturers that have similar 'sail' / high thrust models in the right weight range?

I had a Mariner 6hp long shaft with high thrust prop on our 21.7 sailing around Morecambe Bay ( with similar strong currents) that worked perfectly for us. This engine could be tilted and lifted clear of the water while sailing to reduce drag. The very keen take the engine off and put it in the cabin for racing. Be aware that some models don't have a charging circuit as standard.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

30 years ago we had a 4hp that was able to have the charge circuit as an after market part. Hopefully the current 4 and 6 models can do the same. If you can get a decent high thrust prop for the 6, and the charging circuit, it’s the obvious way forward.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

30 years ago we had a 4hp that was able to have the charge circuit as an after market part. Hopefully the current 4 and 6 models can do the same. If you can get a decent high thrust prop for the 6, and the charging circuit, it’s the obvious way forward.

The standard amps output on the factory sail drive model was extremely low. Be worth it checking perhaps only designed to top up small start charge battery. We just increased solar energy which worked very well.