Best Nav kit

For sheer value for money for a plotter with combined AIS transponder (why nine of the big firms have not done this I don't understand), the Chinese Matsutec HP*28A takes some beating. I had the HP-628A (just under) 6" screen for two seasons and have just upgraded to the 12" HP1228A.

It fires out NMEA 0183, so has yet to modernise to NMEA2K, but my older Raymarine C120 picks up the AIS and positional data from it just fine.
 
I'm still rocking my old school Standard Horizon CP180i! I don't think SH even make plotters anymore.... but it gets me from a-b. Oh and in a 27ft boat too! Would be a different story if I was on a 40ft+!
 
TwoHooter said:
Mike - when you very kindly helped me get started on this you said that you thought a ship's PC can be very useful but you also thought that a conventional marine chartplotter ought to be at the heart of the system. Do you think you might be changing your view?
Click to expand...

No, maybe I wasn't very clear.
I would (and do) still use the main plotter system (Raymarine G Series in my case) as the main nav system but a PC running alongside is very useful - for lots of things.
Thats what I installed 10 years ago and a fully integrated ships PC would still be on my shopping list - but alongside a Garmin or Raymarine system - allowing easy switching between them.
 
TwoHooter said:
I'll chuck a spanner into the works here. If this is for your lovely new boat there is another approach which might appeal.

I'm doing an instrument refit this year and I am probably not going to buy a chartplotter. I'm hoping to install a high quality computer to replace the existing (obsolete) ship's PC, and drive the autopilot from that. We already have a switch to select either PC or chartplotter to drive the autopilot. Most people who have our sort of boat do their planning on a PC or laptop and then download the route on to a chartplotter. All I'm doing is omitting that step. I know of other people who are going down this route.

I haven't chosen the navigation software yet and that's a crucial choice for this sort of system. I might choose TimeZero but I am looking to see what else is available.

My approach is not much cheaper than buying a new chartplotter. OTOH I can have my choice of high quality dimmable sunlight-readable monitors (including a 22" 1.78:1 monitor for passage planning and also to display OpenCPN raster charts), I can change the software completely if I want to, and this is as close to being future-proof as you can get. Those are big advantages.

I was already thinking along these lines but I have recently been able to study this sort of set-up on a friend's boat and I think the result is stunning. I appreciate it won't be to everyone's taste (it certainly won't appeal to the marine industry) but in my mind a chartplotter is just a computer with proprietary software in a waterproof box with a bright, dimmable screen. I can get all that except the waterproof bit (which I don't need) from a PC.
Click to expand...
Coincidentally I'm looking at Timezero this morning. Hadn't realised it was so widely used in the commercial fishing and super yacht world, so I'm told!
 
Magnum said:
Coincidentally I'm looking at Timezero this morning. Hadn't realised it was so widely used in the commercial fishing and super yacht world, so I'm told!
Click to expand...
Furuno/TimeZero got my business. I've got it on my ship PC and the same charts on the touch screen Furuno TZ2 plotter, so have redundancy, plus the advantage of the superior speed and usability in the PC software. The PC has an extra large high res PC monitor. That helps a lot too.

Furuno radars offer ARPA, whearas all the other suppliers offer only MARPA. A killer advantage to Furuno.

Their graphical representation of CPA with radar and AIS is outstandingly good.

Furuno is the work boat choice for good reason. All that said, all the main brand modern equipment is pretty good I think.
 
Zing said:
Their graphical representation of CPA with radar and AIS is outstandingly good.
Click to expand...

Yep - I agree that most plotters aren't good at displaying CPA - for example Raymarine's AIS CPA is rubbish.
OpenCPN's CPA display is much clearer.

Here's an example

serve.php
 
Hurricane said:
Yep - I agree that most plotters aren't good at displaying CPA - for example Raymarine's AIS CPA is rubbish.
OpenCPN's CPA display is much clearer.

Here's an example

serve.php
Click to expand...

That is similar to TimeZero. Very useful.

Note, OCPN cannot do Furuno and Raymarine and is limited with Garmin to low end radar options. It is really designed around the Simrad 4G, but I think they recently added the Simrad Halo in beta test.
 
Magnum said:
Coincidentally I'm looking at Timezero this morning. Hadn't realised it was so widely used in the commercial fishing and super yacht world, so I'm told!
Click to expand...

So it's not a thread hijack then? :encouragement:

In view of how the discussion is developing perhaps my approach to choosing a PC-based system might be of interest:-
  1. Decide where the boat is likely to go, and choose the best charts for that area. Not every chart runs on every system. In addition to Navionics, C-Map, Garmin's Bluechart, Raymarine's Lighthouse, SeaPro, Imray/Meridian etc. there are NOAA and UK Admirality raster charts, Google Earth, aerial photos, home-made georeferenced chartlets like Hurricane uses, & other very localised charts like Antares & Bellfield. I would hate to buy any system, PC or Chartplotter, and then find I can't use my favourite charts.
  2. Choose navigation software which is compatible with the charts. TimeZero is an important supplier, in the USA a lot of people prefer Coastal Explorer, PCPlotter is great with Navionics charts, OpenCPN is growing, there are quite a few others. Care is needed, for example PolarView is nice software but it can't use the charts I want. To give me the widest choice of charts I'm going to install both my main navigation system, which I haven't chosen yet, and OpenCPN.
  3. Decide what monitors I want: how many? what size? mounting options? IP rating? touch screen or not? fully dimmable (hardware or software)? sunlight readable?
  4. Find an Operating System (OS) which is compatible with the software, can drive the the monitors, and which can interface with the boat's sensor network (NMEA0183, or NMEA2000, or Ethernet, or a combination). Take special care to make sure the interface with the Autopilot will work. Radar is a special case. On a new boat you can ignore sensors and buy these to fit the system instead of the other way round. In reality there are only 4 types of OS: Windows, Mac, Linux, or the proprietary "closed" system which comes with a chartplotter. Android couldn't cope with this.
  5. Choose a computer that can live on a boat and is compatible with the OS.
  6. Decide whether to have a dedicated computer for navigation and a separate one for everything else, or stick everything into one box.
  7. Check carefully how the system is going to be updated and serviced, with some idea of what life it will have before it needs to be replaced
If I was buying a marine chartplotter instead of a PC-based system I would use the same process but in steps 4 & 5 the decision is made by the plotter manufacturer and I would need a separate PC for things the plotter won't do, which is Hurricane's approach. A plotter is really just a specialised computer and an MFD is just a fancy monitor, so this procurement process should work the same for choosing a chartplotter as it does for a PC.
 
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TwoHooter said:
So it's not a thread hijack then? :encouragement:

In view of how the discussion is developing perhaps my approach to choosing a PC-based system might be of interest:-
  1. Decide where the boat is likely to go, and choose the best charts for that area. Not every chart runs on every system. In addition to Navionics, C-Map, Garmin's Bluechart, Raymarine's Lighthouse, SeaPro, Imray/Meridian etc. there are NOAA and UK Admirality raster charts, Google Earth, aerial photos, home-made georeferenced chartlets like Hurricane uses, & other very localised charts like Antares & Bellfield. I would hate to buy any system, PC or Chartplotter, and then find I can't use my favourite charts.
  2. Choose navigation software which is compatible with the charts. TimeZero is an important supplier, in the USA a lot of people prefer Coastal Explorer, PCPlotter is great with Navionics charts, OpenCPN is growing, there are quite a few others. Care is needed, for example PolarView is nice software but it can't use the charts I want. To give me the widest choice of charts I'm going to install both my main navigation system, which I haven't chosen yet, and OpenCPN.
  3. Decide what monitors I want: how many? what size? mounting options? IP rating? touch screen or not? fully dimmable (hardware or software)? sunlight readable?
  4. Find an Operating System (OS) which is compatible with the software, can drive the the monitors, and which can interface with the boat's sensor network (NMEA0183, or NMEA2000, or Ethernet, or a combination). Take special care to make sure the interface with the Autopilot will work. Radar is a special case. On a new boat you can ignore sensors and buy these to fit the system instead of the other way round. In reality there are only 4 types of OS: Windows, Mac, Linux, or the proprietary "closed" system which comes with a chartplotter. Android couldn't cope with this.
  5. Choose a computer that can live on a boat and is compatible with the OS.
  6. Decide whether to have a dedicated computer for navigation and a separate one for everything else, or stick everything into one box.
  7. Check carefully how the system is going to be updated and serviced, with some idea of what life it will have before it needs to be replaced
If I was buying a marine chartplotter instead of a PC-based system I would use the same process but in steps 4 & 5 the decision is made by the plotter manufacturer and I would need a separate PC for things the plotter won't do, which is Hurricane's approach. A plotter is really just a specialised computer and an MFD is just a fancy monitor, so this procurement process should work the same for choosing a chartplotter as it does for a PC.
Click to expand...

Agreed but I would add another point that I've experienced over the years.
The PC used for "other stuff" is great but sometimes (like dedicated plotters) the "other stuff" can be better served with dedicated kit.
For example, in the early days, I thought that the audio system would be fed from the PC but as things progressed and the smart phone developed, it was clear that music is best served from dedicated systems.
Likewise, in the early days, I developed an anchor watch that ran on the PC - and again, as the smart phone developed it is now the best place for the anchor watch.

However, above all - for me, behind the scenes, there is a vital element of the system - the Ships LAN.
Over the years, it has helped to integrate all our kit.
An Open Source Router (DD-WRT) is the hub.
The internet feeds in to it so any visitors can connect to the Ships WiFi to browse and collect their emails etc.
Initially, the external connection was marina WiFi - now days it is a 4G connection providing a fast VPN back into the UK.
Another feature of the LAN - In my case, the LAN serves three separate audio zones so if friends don't like my music, they simply play their own from their own iPhones etc.
There are also Raspberry Pis connected to the LAN that stream TV from the UK or other sources.
And the anchor cam is an IP camera which also feeds into the ships LAN.
So, for me, the LAN has turned out to be more of a central feature than the actual PC itself.

Sorry even more thread drift - but with some connection to the OP
 
Quick summary of Nav kit I saw at SIBS.

The PC based options are incredibly detailed, but I'm with jfm on the keyboard and mouse operation, it's not something I want to consider on a boat.

The Simrad NSS16 EVO3 was pretty impressive. However no IP cam input which is a deal breaker for me.

The Raymarine GS165 offered by Princess looks OK but no HD until mid next year at the earliest which will be too late for my boat.

The Raymarine Axium Pro 16 with Lighthouse 3 looked really good. Full HD with up to 10 IP cams and a good selection of ancillary items. Current gen pilot heads and multifunction instruments are clear and bright and we have them on our 68. The CAM220IP is an amazing camera with incredible low and no-light performance and a super wide 93 degree FOV. Only downside is they are a bit ugly for internal use, and we need internal cams to keep an eye on our daughter when leaving/entering port.

Iris don't have an HD IP cam, which is a shame because they are much more discreet.

I didn't get to speak to Garmin but I'm pretty sure they don't have an HD offering.
 
Magnum said:
Quick summary of Nav kit I saw at SIBS.

The PC based options are incredibly detailed, but I'm with jfm on the keyboard and mouse operation, it's not something I want to consider on a boat.

The Simrad NSS16 EVO3 was pretty impressive. However no IP cam input which is a deal breaker for me.

The Raymarine GS165 offered by Princess looks OK but no HD until mid next year at the earliest which will be too late for my boat.

The Raymarine Axium Pro 16 with Lighthouse 3 looked really good. Full HD with up to 10 IP cams and a good selection of ancillary items. Current gen pilot heads and multifunction instruments are clear and bright and we have them on our 68. The CAM220IP is an amazing camera with incredible low and no-light performance and a super wide 93 degree FOV. Only downside is they are a bit ugly for internal use, and we need internal cams to keep an eye on our daughter when leaving/entering port.

Iris don't have an HD IP cam, which is a shame because they are much more discreet.

I didn't get to speak to Garmin but I'm pretty sure they don't have an HD offering.
Click to expand...

Are you sure that an IP camera is ok.
My experience is that there is about half a second delay in it streaming vs an older style analogue RGB camera which is virtually instant.
IMO, half a second is enough to be very offputting with (say) a docking camera.
 
Hurricane said:
Are you sure that an IP camera is ok.
My experience is that there is about half a second delay in it streaming vs an older style analogue RGB camera which is virtually instant.
IMO, half a second is enough to be very offputting with (say) a docking camera.
Click to expand...
With 3rd station controls in the cockpit I rarely use the docking camera. They are mainly used for monitoring movements from the fly to the cockpit and in the saloon, and in those circumstances 1/2 second is irrelevant.

The Axium Pro can interface and distribute 10 IP cameras or directly connect 1 analogue. It's not even close.
 
Magnum said:
With 3rd station controls in the cockpit I rarely use the docking camera. They are mainly used for monitoring movements from the fly to the cockpit and in the saloon, and in those circumstances 1/2 second is irrelevant.

The Axium Pro can interface and distribute 10 IP cameras or directly connect 1 analogue. It's not even close.
Click to expand...

Well, I have an IP camera for my Ancam (anchor camera) and the delay is significant compared to my analogue docking cameras.
I know what I would install.
 
Hurricane said:
Well, I have an IP camera for my Ancam (anchor camera) and the delay is significant compared to my analogue docking cameras.
I know what I would install.
Click to expand...
But I can only connect 1 analogue cam to each MFD. With IP I can connect 10 and look at any of them on each of my 4 displays. Perhaps lag has improved as I would say it's no more than 1/2 second on my CAM220s.
 
I believe simrad are adding ip camera capability in the next 12 months. Software update so no hardware changes needed.
 
If it’s software, can’t see why it wouldn’t happen and I’m sure they wouldn’t want to leave competitors an edge.

Shame they won’t commit to it though.
 
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