Best ketch on a budget

Thanks for all the advice

Hi All
Thanks for all the advice. I have put the victory 40 and Moody Halberdier on the list occasionally see them within the budget. How well does the Coaster Sail. The Nauticat 33 is a great boat by all accounts but beyond the budget unless looking at a boat with lots of issues. The hard top is a major attraction as allows you to sail in comfort in wet weather which apart from 3 weeks of the Summer in 2013 we get plenty of.
 
Tom Murray said:
Hi All
The hard top is a major attraction as allows you to sail in comfort in wet weather which apart from 3 weeks of the Summer in 2013 we get plenty of.
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A lot of boats seem to have canvas cockpit enclosures, these days, which they keep up when the weather gets nasty - although I imagine you would want a solid doghouse if you are in really foul stuff. The canvas has the advantage of being removable for periods of prolonged sunshine - i.e. if you go cruising outside UK waters!!!!

BTW - I looked long and hard at the Solway (mentioned above) that is now on eBay. It does look like a really well set up and cared for boat. Solways are great solid seaboats, too.
 
Ravi said:
A lot of boats seem to have canvas cockpit enclosures, these days, which they keep up when the weather gets nasty - although I imagine you would want a solid doghouse if you are in really foul stuff. The canvas has the advantage of being removable for periods of prolonged sunshine - i.e. if you go cruising outside UK waters!!!!

BTW - I looked long and hard at the Solway (mentioned above) that is now on eBay. It does look like a really well set up and cared for boat. Solways are great solid seaboats, too.
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As are Westerly 33 of which I have, solid boat, bilge keel and ketch rig. Great set up for me sailing with a young family.
 
I have owned a Moody Halberdier for 4 years and would never go back to a single mast again! She sails very well and is a dry yacht, but remember long keel boats don't go astern in a straight line!
 
Ravi said:
A lot of boats seem to have canvas cockpit enclosures, these days, which they keep up when the weather gets nasty - although I imagine you would want a solid doghouse if you are in really foul stuff. The canvas has the advantage of being removable for periods of prolonged sunshine - i.e. if you go cruising outside UK waters!!!!

BTW - I looked long and hard at the Solway (mentioned above) that is now on eBay. It does look like a really well set up and cared for boat. Solways are great solid seaboats, too.
Click to expand...

From the site : www.condesa.org :

"Condesa’s most distinctive, and in my opinion her best feature is her prominent wheelhouse. While perhaps not the most pleasing to the eye, the wheelhouse accomplishes three major functions:
1.It protects the crew from wind, waves, sun, sleet, hail, spray, and the general beating of the elements.
2.It provides relatively dry and convenient place for all of the instruments.
3.It provides a perfect exposed surface for mounting an array of solar panels.

I cannot imagine cruising without it. I guess I would be much more at one with the elements, meaning cold, wet, and having skin cancer. In a recent passage down the coasts of Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego we had rain, sleet, and hail being driven by fifty knot winds. From behind the protection of the wheelhouse it was nothing more than a curiosity; step outside and we were being gunned down by an icy firing squad. Consider strictly the ravages of the sun in the tropics: By having a roof over my head all these years I have saved my skin untold damage.

I have all of the instruments—GPS, depthsounder, radar, and VHF radio—all mounted on the ceiling, hanging down in easy view just in front of the helm. These instruments are all water-resistant, but even the worst of weather can’t get any spray up there. I can also connect a computer for electronic chart navigation, but I usually keep it below. This arrangement allows me to fly by instruments in zero visibility, as everything is right there in easy view of the helm. Boats that have a navigation station down below are putting all the instruments where they are useless to the person who needs them most, the helmsman. I realize this is usually a necessity of the design, but it’s cumbersome in practice. Having someone yell up the companionway what they see on the radar is inferior to seeing the radar oneself.

Many boats have solar panels in precarious places on adjustable mounts. Condesa’s are securely bolted down on top of the wheelhouse where they are always in the sun. I made rounded teak guards for the sharp corners of the panels to protect crewmembers from injury and rigging from getting snagged."
 
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prv said:
Having had a yawl for several years and now moved to a bog standard sloop, two masts are much prettier.
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It's true. It may technically be a matter of opinion, but everyone who prefers single-masters is (whether or not they admit it) dominated by priorities other than aesthetics.

In the past I've asked total non-sailors which, out of three yachts on a quayside, they like best...invariably they choose the one with teak decks. The trouble and expense which teak decks represent, means wood decks tend to be less popular with owners, despite looking terrific if kept in decent condition...

...and likewise, whenever I've been amongst non-sailors (who have nothing to gain from any preference expressed) with yachts in view under sail, the sight of a ketch seems to evoke immediate, almost romantic admiration. They may not be the slickest & quickest boats, but even the dullest hull design is much prettier with two masts than with one.

I suspect performance-minded skippers are unable to appreciate (or to concede) the superior aesthetics because they're acutely aware of a ketch's intrinsic upwind disadvantage.

I like the purity of sleek traditional racing sloops with flush decks, and admire their easy long-legged pace...but in rough seas, I'd always rather be aboard a wheelhouse two-master.

It must depend how you use a boat. I suppose hotshots feel their front-running egos are at risk aboard a comfortable traditional design, whereas folk who want to relish the scene while relaxing behind the wheel-shelter of a solid, easily-handled vessel will go for something with atmosphere over pure performance.

Ironic that the more efficient a rig, the duller it seems to be - very effective, but not half as likeable. I like schooners even more than ketches, but they're even worse upwind. :numbness:
 
We bought a Barbary Ketch just over a year ago and would definitely recommend it for the kind of sailing you describe.

Though obviously not a light-weight racing boat, we were surprised by how well she sails. We were concerned about this too when we were looking, but were easily convinced by a test sail! She's sluggish in very light winds, but gets going in a force 3-4 and doesn't seem to lag so far behind sloops of a similar length. The versatility of the ketch rig has been handy too - we've been out in a force 7 with the mizzen and part-furled genoa and she went along nicely with an easy motion. We're frequently glad of the dog house, though particularly so on that day! The original Mercedes engine hasn't missed a beat yet either.

The accommodation has ample head room throughout, reasonable sized berths and we've not got close to filling all the storage. The galley has enough work surface to prepare a meal without having to use the saloon table and there is space to shower in the heads (we're putting a shower attachment on the sink and have pressurised hot water). The compromise is that the saloon is smaller than the norm for a 32 footer, but we've been comfortable with six aboard for weekends, and with four on board for weeks at a time.

We're trying to think of bad points, but are struggling... We could do with a few more cleats, but aren't sure whether this is peculiar to our boat... In any case these can be added. Also, having a long keel, we haven't got the hang of reversing yet.
 
I have sailed a Barbary Ketch for over 20 years often single handed: the hard top wheel house is great in bad weather, with a canvas enclosure it makes an extra cabin with great views for in harbour. In recent summers I have really valued that, in really hot weather I sometimes wish for a more open cockpit but that is rare these days. In practice when single handed or on short trips I sail as a sloop with the mizzen stowed. For long trips,, with plenty of crew or in bad weather ( so you can use the jib and mizzen rig) then out it comes.

Yes I often motor up wind but so do many AWB sloops! The 32 foot Barbary is big enough to be comfortable but small enough to handle S/H so long as you realise she goes astern with difficulty and plan for that. Great boats for their purpose, solid cruising boats.
 
I bought out Countess 33 ketch last year not because she's a ketch but because she is the perfect boat for us.

The ketch rig has proved a bonus; Very versatile, if healing more than swmbo likes with a few rolls in the genny and a couple of reefs, I drop the main and carry on with almost no drop in boat speed. The mizzen is the first up and last down. Stay sail is worth having and less hassle than a spinnaker. A cruising chute would be a nice addition. Tan sails show I'm not racing and I'm not bothered if others overtake. She has a fixed windscreen and hood and is very dry.

And cost less than the bottom of your budget, in very good nick and very well equipped. The teak decks are only 3 years old.

There are bargains out there but I'm not selling!
 
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