Best in-mast furling Sail ??

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Hi
some advise pls. My folks have recently bought a Malo yacht - very nice !
They now need to decide which in-mast main to plug for. Has anyone any experience of the new vertical type battens and which manufacturers are generally considered the best to go for?

Any tips would be much appreciated.
Many thanks
 
You have three clear choices.
1. Vertical battens full length of sail.
I have had one of these for a while now and am scrapping it because the additional roach it gave me did not compensate for furling problems.
2. Battenless. But you have to come to terms with negative (hollow) roach. Not outstanding but furls well and won't jam.
3. Short vertical battens, giving straight sail without significant roach. This, after having had both the above is what I now have being made by Kemp. The battens will be short and carbon fibre giving very little increase in sail thickness and will overlap, not causing any "pile up" in the furled sail.
My judgement, yet to be proven, is that this will be the best way forward to produce a sail of reasonable performance that will furl easily.
 
This is what Mike is talking about....

DSCN1087.jpg


Any reputable sailmaker should be able to do something similar....
 
I have a MaxiRoach full vertical batten main sail for the last couple of years, more powerfull than the Elvstrom version. Elvstrom battens are susceptible to fall apart when the retaining pins fall out, ( they are only held in by sticky tape ) they then poke their way through the side of the sail. A regular check is needed to avert this problem.
The MaxiRoach sail has one piece battens so this problem does not arrise, however, it is always wise to windup the sail inside the mast before use, then it won't jam as you pull it out. Stowing the sail is no problem, only takes a few seconds. MaxiRoach are in Ringwood, Hants. Paul the proprietor was very helpfull when I purchased mine. Good luck with whatever you buy. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Cheers Guys
As the Malo and Rassy are similar I did look into what sails they use too. I noticed the majority come with Elvstroms whereas Malo supply UK Hallsey (both vertical battens but Elvstroms are full length) Looking at Elvstoms website they have some very nice examples photograpphed too. I have to say I thought Elvstrom dealt with more of the budget sail market.

Maxi Roach sound a very good option - this needs investigating. How about some of the bigger boys like Hood, North etc - I noticed at LBS that Oyster spec. Dolphin sails
all good stuff
Al
 
Elvstrom have learnt the error of their ways then. Enquired at other sail manufacturers but not very interested in inmast and not at all with battens, this a couple years ago, may have changed their minds with current econonomic situation.
 
from my experiences of veritcal battened sails I 'd avoid them like the plague. Its too easy for something to happen , or a messy furl to end up kaming the sail in the mast. Just go for battenless, simple and they work , Malo needs a pile of wind to get going anyway, so it wouldnt make a big difference
 
I have a Bavaria 42 with vertical batten Elvstrom "Hi Tech" (laminate) sails. The boat has been out sailing 400 times and I would estimate that the main has been in and out about 500 times. The main is now past it's best but still has a couple more year's life in it. To date I have not had a single problem with the main sail furling system. We have marked the topping lift rope so that the boom height is adjusted before furling and the battens enter the mast parallel to the mast.

One of the reasons out boat is used so frequently is that getting the main sail in and out takes less than a minute. We race the boat about 10 times a year. We lose 1% sail area in comparison to the standard high tech main. This is made up for because most other cruiser racers leave their boom top sail bags on when racing.

I am about to change my boat and will certainly get another vertical batten main .
 
I have no battens, and while it does mean a reduction in area, I never have problems getting the sail in or out.
 
NormanS said:
I have no battens, and while it does mean a reduction in area, I never have problems getting the sail in or out.
Click to expand...

We have full battens and the only thing that causes us issues is the width of the sail, it never jams how we operate it but the hydraulics do spike when each batten goes into the mast.

We are looking at the new EPEX sails that integrate the battens inside the batten so making the sail thinner.
 
Full length vertical battens and it has never stuck even once.
Get the boom at the correct angle when furling.
Keep a little tension on the out haul.
If you struggle to furl you will struggle to unfurl.

5f255e5c00eb90d66a8c436ea1f3d2ab.jpg
 
We have in mast reefing and two current mainsails. One with full height vertical battons and the other with no battons.
The full height battons are great when new. However, with use the wear on the top batton pockets causes them to fluff.
Over time the thickness of the sail at this point significantly increases to the point where the sail jams getting it out.
I suspect lots of owners are fine with full height battons because the amount of use their sail gets means they never reach this point.
Also the extra thickness of the sail creates greater wear on the stitching. The stitching is rubbing against the mast slot as it is furled and unfurled.
In the event of a jam the battens could be extracted one by one at deck level as the sail was eased out and the jam cleared. One advantage of full height over short battens is you can extract the battons if you have to at deck level. I have no experience though of short battons.
The sail with no battens is a straight cut. It does not have a negative roach. This is the sail that is used all the time. It has been a dream. So much so our fully battoned mainsail never comes out of the loft. Both the fully battoned and the no battoned sails were made by Kemp at the same time. (Previous mainsails were Hood and Kemp.)
Our fully battoned Mainsails were only lasting 2 or 3 seasons before major issues with furling/unfurling and having to be replaced. (2 of our seasons probably equates to 10 seasons for most boats.) Since switching to no battons we have had no issues at all.

One of the reasons we stuck with Kemp was because we liked the Vectron fabric. This is no longer made. If I was buying again I would buy a mainsail with no vertical battons and would have to rethink fabric.
Kemp were great. I would highly recommend them. Our current Genoa is from North Sails. Whilst the sail is great I thought I was buying a British made sail. Not the case. It has a label on it saying made in Singapore if I remember correctly. Nothing wrong with quality just I would prefer to recycle money locally.
 
Ex-SolentBoy said:
Full length vertical battens and it has never stuck even once.
Get the boom at the correct angle when furling.
Keep a little tension on the out haul.
If you struggle to furl you will struggle to unfurl.
Click to expand...

I'm intrigued at the idea that the boom has to be "at the correct angle".
I presume that is the horizontal angle? But why? The clew of the sail is not rigidly attached to the end of the boom. In my case the outhaul passes under a block on a traveller, round a sheave in the clew, and then back to the traveller. When I want to furl, it's just a case of easing off the outhaul, and heaving in on the furling line. The boom could be anywhere. Maybe other systems are rigged differently.

See, I didn't repeat the photo.:D
 
NormanS said:
I'm intrigued at the idea that the boom has to be "at the correct angle".
I presume that is the horizontal angle? But why? The clew of the sail is not rigidly attached to the end of the boom. In my case the outhaul passes under a block on a traveller, round a sheave in the clew, and then back to the traveller. When I want to furl, it's just a case of easing off the outhaul, and heaving in on the furling line. The boom could be anywhere. Maybe other systems are rigged differently.

See, I didn't repeat the photo.:D
Click to expand...

A sail is a triangular piece of cloth. If you want to roll it along one side, the luff, it is important that the boom is at the right height so that the leech is not loose. If it is, you end up with a loose, or creased furl and this can jam.

It's a simple task to work out at what height the leech is correctly tensioned. On my boat I stood being the wheel and if I could just touch the top of the boom by reaching up, then it was perfect.

Pulling on the clew via the furling will tension the foot of the sail for proper furling, but that is at 90 degrees to the furl and will not tension the leech. Ideally, one would pull the clew down and aft to maintain the triangular shape. As that is not possible it is best to maintain a little clew tension on the out haul and leech tension via boom angle.

All explained in the Selden mast guide.
 
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Ex-SolentBoy said:
A sail is a triangular piece of cloth. If you want to roll it along one side, the luff, it is important that the boom is at the right height so that the leech is not loose. If it is, you end up with a loose, or creased furl and this can jam.

It's a simple task to work out at what height the leech is correctly tensioned. On my boat I stood being the wheel and if I could just touch the top of the boom by reaching up, then it was perfect.

Pulling on the clew via the furling will tension the foot of the sail for proper furling, but that is at 90 degrees to the furl and will not tension the leech. Ideally, one would pull the clew down and aft to maintain the triangular shape. As that is not possible it is best to maintain a little clew tension on the out haul and leech tension via boom angle.

All explained in the Selden mast guide.
Click to expand...

Mine works fine without all that palaver. As I already explained, mine is rigged as previously described so that the pull of the furling line is NOT at 90º to the furl, but is part along, and part downward. This keeps tension on both the leach and the foot, and keeps the sail flat for furling. I'm surprised that all are not rigged in a similar manner.
 
Ex-SolentBoy said:
A sail is a triangular piece of cloth. If you want to roll it along one side, the luff, it is important that the boom is at the right height so that the leech is not loose. If it is, you end up with a loose, or creased furl and this can jam.

It's a simple task to work out at what height the leech is correctly tensioned. On my boat I stood being the wheel and if I could just touch the top of the boom by reaching up, then it was perfect.

Pulling on the clew via the furling will tension the foot of the sail for proper furling, but that is at 90 degrees to the furl and will not tension the leech. Ideally, one would pull the clew down and aft to maintain the triangular shape. As that is not possible it is best to maintain a little clew tension on the out haul and leech tension via boom angle.

All explained in the Selden mast guide.
Click to expand...
It does sound quite complicated. I thought that the advantage of in mast furling was ease of use. It sounds like our stack pack system is easier and quicker.
 
Storyline said:
It does sound quite complicated. I thought that the advantage of in mast furling was ease of use. It sounds like our stack pack system is easier and quicker.
Click to expand...
Not at all. Once you have learned how to do it, which takes about 2 goes, it is just as easy as claimed. Suggest you write down the steps to reef with your system as guidance to someone who has not done it before and try to read it from that persons perspective.
 
Tranona said:
Not at all. Once you have learned how to do it, which takes about 2 goes, it is just as easy as claimed. Suggest you write down the steps to reef with your system as guidance to someone who has not done it before and try to read it from that persons perspective.
Click to expand...
You must be correct as so many people have them now - even HRH Princess Anne with her new boat.
 
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