Best downwind sail?

Thanks all - some great info.

I have had 3 boats with spinnakers and poles, so get the benefits of this arrangement. But need to go simpler this bigger boat. Objective is say 140 deg to perhaps dead downwind, in lighter winds (F3). Seems the assymetric/cruising chute is the way to investigate. Dont have a pole, and would like to avoid having one if possible, maybe see how I get on with the sail and go from there.

Interested in the comments of furlers vs snuffers.
 
West Coast said:
Interested in the comments of furlers vs snuffers.
Click to expand...

Furlers brilliant for ease of use - and for taming the sail if it all gets a bit too fruity. Though often continuous furler loop not brought fully back to stern, so in squall our approach is harness on before going to shrouds where furler rope can be reached. Typically then leave up till back in harbour, or reset.

Well set up snuffer also can be effective. But perhaps more risk of things getting tangled in a “distress furl”. Also worth noting in a bigger boat it may be important to have snatch block on deck and pull furling rope upwards from that. When a sudden Caribbean squall hit on a 45 footer, when trying to snuff the asymetric it refilled suddenly and pulled me 6 feet clean off the decks before I let go. By the time we got the asymetric down it was badly ripped and a write off for the rest of the voyage.
(Typical Caribbean squall as described by Chris Tibbs - “wind hits hard for 10 minutes, just enough to blow out the spinnaker and soak everybody before suddenly going calm again”. I had suggested a drop before it hit but not my kite :)
 
The OP asked for "best" downwind sail and a contender must be a Parasailor. Sails in the dead third of wind angles from 120 either side. A key advantage of the Parasailor is its massive expense, which guarantees you'll use it as often as possible.
 
People enthuse about all sorts of rig for downwind, tradewind sailing.
Coastal light airs sailing, using an asymetric, the apparent wind is often a long way forwards.
Get your head around the vectors before parting with cash.
Better still, have a go with an asy, maybe in a dinghy.

Parasails and twistle rigs, people will talk of setting it up and it looking after itself for days on end.
A big asy in light airs can be almost the opposite of that, you can sail the boat really actively to get the best out of it.
I find it absorbing and rewarding, as well as a quick way of getting there while others are motoring dead downwind in thier own diesel fumes.
If you just want to be blown along in F4, sort out a decent poling out system which is really quick to set up and pack away.
Sailing is a broad church. Not everyone wants the same thing!

You can of course just set an asy in F3, cleat it and engage autopilot, just being ready to respond if overpowered. But that may leave you wishing you'd bought a conventional kite?
 
There was a lot of chat about Parasails and Twistle rig from some advocates pre ARC in the Canaries.

They were less chatty in St Lucia - not least as much bigger boats with these came in many days after smaller boats simply sailing wing and wing with mainsail and (robustly set up) poled out genoa :)
Not saying they don’t have some value - but probably over complex for the OP and not even proven by the actual results to be materially better for long downwind sails such as ARC (don flack jacket and tin helmet)
 
dunedin said:
There was a lot of chat about Parasails and Twistle rig from some advocates pre ARC in the Canaries.

They were less chatty in St Lucia - not least as much bigger boats with these came in many days after smaller boats simply sailing wing and wing with mainsail and (robustly set up) poled out genoa :)
Not saying they don’t have some value - but probably over complex for the OP and not even proven by the actual results to be materially better for long downwind sails such as ARC (don flack jacket and tin helmet)
Click to expand...

What works best for a long downwind tradewind sail, and what the best solution might be for a downwind sail for use in coastal waters in light wind are very different. They're completely different scenarios.

With tradewind sailing in fairly traditional (i.e not planing hulled) heavily laden cruising boats, a kite isn't going to make a massive difference to polling out the genoa, as the hull is unlikley to be able to actually make use of the extra power.
But trying to make the same boat go downwind in 10 knots or less when less heavily laden... That's when a kite will really come into its own.
 
Not my experience. We are that heavy cruiser. Goosewinged our poled out genoa is 700sqft whereas the poled out asymmetric is 1700sqft. The current asymmetric is actually larger than the original spinnaker we had. It makes a huge difference to boat speed ddw or beam reaching in 9 kts of wind. We really enjoy flying it. the thing we notice with the poled out asymmetric is how stable it is ddw compares to our old spinny.
 
geem said:
Not my experience. We are that heavy cruiser. Goosewinged our poled out genoa is 700sqft whereas the poled out asymmetric is 1700sqft. The current asymmetric is actually larger than the original spinnaker we had. It makes a huge difference to boat speed ddw or beam reaching in 9 kts of wind. We really enjoy flying it. the thing we notice with the poled out asymmetric is how stable it is ddw compares to our old spinny.
Click to expand...

Are you poling out the tack or the clew?
 
For long distance saiiing we used a hinged Twistle rig one thing is it stops the boat rolling because the poles are flying free, with a genoa poled out the sail pushes the mast and vice versa. The other thing is you can reef it a lot of boats over the Atlantic took their spinnakers down in case a squall came along, and we did have a lot for 10 days and one sat over us overnight.
 
thinwater said:
I'd expereiment with wing-and-wing, perhaps with a whisker pole. I think the method is underused.
Click to expand...

Being blown along by a 'wing and wing' rig is great for tradewind sailing, or anything where you've got a good distance to go in a good steady breeze.
The OP was asking about coastal sailing in lighter conditions.
In my view, that calls for a lot of sail area and 'apparent wind' sailing.
 
On my little 26’er, I originally had a twin groove furling system on the headsail and often ran downwind with my no1 and no2 Genoa’s on together. Not quite a “twisle” rig but close enough. Now I have Parasail (not the parasailor) and it’s easier to rig single handed and better. I’ve used it in the Solent often, just daysailing and had a couple of fine Channel crossings under it. I’d have another in a heartbeat, if I bought another boat.
 
Having done a lot of racing over 40 years, I'm not a fan of symmetrical spinnakers - Just too hard to tame when things go south. Wing on wing is good if you have the hardware but a lot of boats these days don't even have a spinnaker pole, never mind 2 (or a whisker pole).

My fav is an asymmetrical on a furler (like the facnor http://www.facnor.com/uk/products/asymmetric_spinnaker_thim/default.asp ). No pole needed, tack is also under control as it doesn't move. Easy to set up and more importantly, get down in a hurry.
 
Starting to look seriously at an assymetric with a top-down furler. Any ideas on sail area compared to the white sails? Our main and 135% furling genoa give about 70 sq.m. Sailmakers are talking about assymetrics from 70 to 100 sq.m. We expect to normally use it at deep angles in light winds but 100 sq.m. sounds huge.
 
DJE said:
Starting to look seriously at an assymetric with a top-down furler. Any ideas on sail area compared to the white sails? Our main and 135% furling genoa give about 70 sq.m. Sailmakers are talking about assymetrics from 70 to 100 sq.m. We expect to normally use it at deep angles in light winds but 100 sq.m. sounds huge.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right to me. My asymmetrics are 95-130m^2 which we can mostly handle two-up. IIRC (?) yours is a masthead rig which will naturally increase the proportionate size of the assy.

When you say quite deep, I think about 160 is as low as one can sensibly get and even then it's very shape dependent. It might be worth having a serious think about the windspeeds and angles you'd like to fly it: perhaps 120deg in 5-10kt TWS up to say 160deg in up to 20kts, or whatever.

Then discuss these specs with your sailmaker so you all know exactly what you want.

Edit: what North call their G2 might be close to what you want, although any sailmaker can produce something along those lines:
https://cfd.northsails.com/sailing/...-Downwind_G_Series_Gennaker_Flyer_3.22.17.pdf
 
Last edited:
geem said:
We sail a 44ft yacht with just me and the wife. We have an asymmetric spinnaker. We only ever set it on the pole. We use a snuffer. We never attempt to gybe with it, we just snuff it and then rig on the opposite side but rarely even do this. We only use a two line system. Its very simple and gives a huge speed advantage ddw. We have friends with an identical boat. They use a Parasail. We ‘blow’ them away with the asymmetric when cruising in company. They have recently taken to setting the parasail on a pole with the main up goose-winged for ddw. At all the additional cost you have to wonder why they have a Parasail.
Click to expand...

The Red Monster ("I" 18.71 metres, "J" 6.28 metres) was carefully designed to keep 11 fit people very busy. She came without a windlass or an autopilot but with two massive spinnaker poles, a jockey pole, twin halyards, lifts, etc and three spinnakers. Since she no longer has the eleven fit people, and has to get along with one or two geriatrics, the kites are on loan to a sister ship which does race, and I am quietly thinking of what to put in their place.

I am much obliged to Geem for saving me the ghastly price of a Parasail...
 
DJE said:
Starting to look seriously at an assymetric with a top-down furler. Any ideas on sail area compared to the white sails? Our main and 135% furling genoa give about 70 sq.m. Sailmakers are talking about assymetrics from 70 to 100 sq.m. We expect to normally use it at deep angles in light winds but 100 sq.m. sounds huge.
Click to expand...

nice posh sail, get the big one i think. If you keep it at night, perhaps get a secondhand smaller cheap thing. Not big, like erm curtains, always lots of material, big bag innit?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top