Best Antifoul + doing it right?

[Hot Property]

6k, post: 7010917, member: 80756"]
I am going to try Hempel Silic One this year. I'll let you know the first year results next Winter.

Not looking forward to the application though - four coatings required - primer, tie coat, two top coats generously applied.

As part of the current maintenance I've already been around about 50% of the hull removing stray barnacles, tube worms and odd areas of loose old paint. I did think about a shot blast off but see little to be gained as the surface is mostly very sound.

I'm also going to try the Silic propellor kit as well.
[/QUOTE]

I am going to try Hempel Silic One this year. I'll let you know the first year results next Winter.

Not looking forward to the application though - four coatings required - primer, tie coat, two top coats generously applied.

As part of the current maintenance I've already been around about 50% of the hull removing stray barnacles, tube worms and odd areas of loose old paint. I did think about a shot blast off but see little to be gained as the surface is mostly very sound.

I'm also going to try the Silic propellor kit as well.

Did you read my pm with my offer of help Trev?

 

[thinwater]

How much chilli powder for say 2.5 litres of AF of whatever make? It might be of use for those wanting paint their propellers as an experiment in south coast waters.

This is either a joke or you are not aware that this is a party myth, long dispelled.

Nobody wet sands in the US. Vacuum sanders. If you don't have one, the marinas often rent them cheap. Quite fast, less clean-up. You still tarp the ground and wear a mask, but very little gets on them.

 

[[176172]]

We just have to wonder why the antifoul manufacturers are so ignorant of this startling breakthrough....

We just have to wonder why the antifoul manufacturers are so ignorant of this startling breakthrough....

The manufacturers, unlike yourself, are certainly neither as cynical or as ignorant as you are of the many previous posts re the use of chilli powder.
The use of chilli powder has been mentioned in many previous threads regarding antifoul, one manufacturer claimed, without any supporting trials, that it would not work.
They would say that wouldn't they! Their interest lies in selling you an expensive product, rather than in finding an economic solution to antifouling. Perhaps you are one of them, or associated with them, work for them, or regularly kiss their collective bottoms, hopefully pre antifoul.
Sceptisism is fine, I certainly was until the results were evident... there are more things under the sun etc......

 

[coveman]

I copper coated last summer, The hull looked like the surface of the moon - I am sure it had never been taken back to base in the 35 years she was afloat. So far, six months after the work was completed nothing is visible on the hull and the boat is faster. Apart from a power wash and changing anodes annually I will never need to antifoul again.

Yep, mine is now in its 7th year and all that it needs is a power wash to remove slime each season - expensive initially, but over a 10 year period much cheaper and who knows it may well last longer!

 

[[176172]]

We just have to wonder why the antifoul manufacturers are so ignorant of this startling breakthrough....

How much chilli powder for say 2.5 litres of AF of whatever make? It might be of use for those wanting paint their propellers as an experiment in south coast waters.

This is either a joke or you are not aware that this is a party myth, long dispelled.

Nobody wet sands in the US. Vacuum sanders. If you don't have one, the marinas often rent them cheap. Quite fast, less clean-up. You still tarp the ground and wear a mask, but very little gets on them.

Certainly not a myth or joke, I have used chilli powder in a cheap antifoul paint fopr some 20 years.

 

[thinwater]

^^ Please...

On the west coast of the US copper is being banned or restricted in many areas. There is a massive push to find non-toxic additives. Universities, governments, and paint companies have all looked at bio-agents, including cayenne. Magazines have tested. Just nope. Or show us a side-by-side test. Publish it--ANY sailing mag would print it if you can prove it. I'm sure the cheap, single season paint is working for you. Many variables.

 

[pvb]

The manufacturers, unlike yourself, are certainly neither as cynical or as ignorant as you are of the many previous posts re the use of chilli powder.
The use of chilli powder has been mentioned in many previous threads regarding antifoul, one manufacturer claimed, without any supporting trials, that it would not work.
They would say that wouldn't they! Their interest lies in selling you an expensive product, rather than in finding an economic solution to antifouling. Perhaps you are one of them, or associated with them, work for them, or regularly kiss their collective bottoms, hopefully pre antifoul.
Sceptisism is fine, I certainly was until the results were evident... there are more things under the sun etc......

So give us a link to some independent testing which supports your theory.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Funny thing is I tried it in Greece ,a friend and I both used the cheap local antifoul about €10 a kilo. I added chilli powder to mine and when we came out 7 months later mine had definitely less weed ,it could have been I moved more ,different areas, but there was a difference.

 

[[176172]]

So give us a link to some independent testing which supports your theory.

That's most amusing, quite which manufacturer would be foolish enough to possibly attempt to damage their profit margins in that way?
(Rather like expecting the companies who are receiving $billions to prove man made climate change admitting they havn't as yet provided a single document in conclusive evidence, and that they have been on a wild goose chase) An analogy rather than a thread drift.
I can only repeat the evidence of my own eyes as to the results achieved from the use of powerfully strong chilli powder. The finish is not as smooth, has a very fine 'roughness' to the fingertips, with, as far as I can tell not detrimental to speed throigh the water, but as a cruiser hardly something that concerns me.
I do not intend to be rude to you, (your previous advice to me on a new alternator problems was invaluable) but why not do your own trials.

 

[pvb]

That's most amusing, quite which manufacturer would be foolish enough to possibly attempt to damage their profit margins in that way?
(Rather like expecting the companies who are receiving $billions to prove man made climate change admitting they havn't as yet provided a single document in conclusive evidence, and that they have been on a wild goose chase) An analogy rather than a thread drift.
I can only repeat the evidence of my own eyes as to the results achieved from the use of powerfully strong chilli powder. The finish is not as smooth, has a very fine 'roughness' to the fingertips, with, as far as I can tell not detrimental to speed throigh the water, but as a cruiser hardly something that concerns me.
I do not intend to be rude to you, (your previous advice to me on a new alternator problems was invaluable) but why not do your own trials.

I understand; you have no independent evidence.

About 10 years ago, the American "Practical Sailor" magazine did a test, adding cayenne pepper to antifoul. They said there was no difference.

Here in the UK, "Motor Boat & Yachting" magazine decided that adding chilli powder was a "non-starter".

 

[thinwater]

Funny thing is I tried it in Greece ,a friend and I both used the cheap local antifoul about €10 a kilo. I added chilli powder to mine and when we came out 7 months later mine had definitely less weed ,it could have been I moved more ,different areas, but there was a difference.

As a result, this is not a data point. If you had painted different areas on the same boat that would be better, and still, port vs. starboard are often different.

Practical Sailor, 2008
Testers applied Interlux Bottomkote alone to the boat’s port bow and starboard after sections. Bottomkote mixed with a large amount of cayenne pepper was applied to the boat’s starboard bow and aft port quarters. The bottom was cleaned in the water every three to six weeks and was hauled for a serious scrubbing in late April 2008.

After 10 months, testers noted no difference in growth between the sections with and without cayenne. There was an even distribution of some hard growth and considerable soft growth.

One notable drawback to adding pepper to your bottom paint is the bumpy texture. A spicy bottom, it seems, can be a drag.

In fact, Interlux did joint testing with McCormack some years back. As for the conspiracy theory that it would damage margins, they would not have to disclose it. Heck, at the tiny rate it would release over a season, the most it would do is give the boat some slight flavor.
; they might actually like it. If it released at a noticeable rate, it would be gone in a week. Obviously.

 

[oldharry]

I'm sure there's nothing legal and effective the yottie can add to improve antifouling, but I do wonder if there are any commonly available substances hat could be mixed with modern antifouling to create something illegal but effective.

Must be something that wouldn't prevent the antifoul sticking and lasting but would stop weed and critters growing.

Obviously I wouldn't do it myself because I like sailing really slowly dragging the cast of "Finding Nemo" along with me.

There are several very effective substances that can be used: those of old enough to remember the efficiency of TBT anti foulings will remember the days when AF actually did what it was meant to do.

The problem is that anything effective enough to keep our boats clean also poisons the entire cast of Finding Nemo, not to mention Little Mermaids, Flipper, Moby Dick, and maybe the odd Seahorse! I understand the AF manufacturers are tearing their hair to find chemicals that will keep our boats clean without leaving a toxic trail downtide.

 

[thinwater]

Washington State Report, 2017

Washington State Report 2019

 

[[176172]]

Funny thing is I tried it in Greece ,a friend and I both used the cheap local antifoul about €10 a kilo. I added chilli powder to mine and when we came out 7 months later mine had definitely less weed ,it could have been I moved more ,different.

I spent quite a few years in Greece, it worked very well there also.
Often wondered if in Mexico the effects could be reversed.

I understand; you have no independent evidence.

About 10 years ago, the American "Practical Sailor" magazine did a test, adding cayenne pepper to antifoul. They said there was no difference.

Here in the UK, "Motor Boat & Yachting" magazine decided that adding chilli powder was a "non-starter".

I am not here to promote the sales of chilli powder or anything else for that matter, but to simply relate, as a member, on this forum, my honest and personal evidence based experiences, and those of others who firstly made me aware, and others subsequently doing the same.
You, as a fellow member, are entitled to disbelieve, or doubt, or say anything you feel appropriate, if I may say so most certainly without any supporting evidence to the contrary. What you are depending on, is the opinions of magazines, who themselves are heavily obliged to the large advertising revenue from the manufacturers of antifoul, which litter the pages of both publications like barnacles to hulls painted with their products.
As in my previous contribution I would recommend you consider the old but very valid advice of ‘Follow the Money’.

 

[thinwater]

I am not here to promote the sales of chilli powder or anything else for that matter, but to simply relate, as a member, on this forum, my honest and personal evidence based experiences, and those of others who firstly made me aware, and others subsequently doing the same.
You, as a fellow member, are entitled to disbelieve, or doubt, or say anything you feel appropriate, if I may say so most certainly without any supporting evidence to the contrary. What you are depending on, is the opinions of magazines, who themselves are heavily obliged to the large advertising revenue from the manufacturers of antifoul, which litter the pages of both publications like barnacles to hulls painted with their products.
As in my previous contribution I would recommend you consider the old but very valid advice of ‘Follow the Money’.

^^ Practical Sailor, like Consumer Reports, has NEVER accepted any advertising. They frequently debunk the value of heavily advertised goods. I'm guessing you didn't look at their web page or follow any of the links.

You have made a serious accusation based on, how do you say, no "supporting evidence."

 

[pvb]

^^ Practical Sailor, like Consumer Reports, has NEVER accepted any advertising. They frequently debunk the value of heavily advertised goods. I'm guessing you didn't look at their web page or follow any of the links.

You have made a serious accusation based on, how do you say, no "supporting evidence."

I fear you may confuse Freedom35 with facts.

 

[[176172]]

I fear you may confuse Freedom35 with facts.

"Serious accusation", that is even more amusing... Whilst I am not a reader of Practical sailor, and unlikely to be, I was referring to the popular magazines here in the UK who's covers are re-pleat with advertisements for antifoul, and I repeat'Follow the Money'

Sorry to upset our American cousins, probably Hilary loving democrats. Vote Republican 2020 for the best President you have ever had.

I shall continue to antifoul using chilli powder in the cheapest antifoul medium I can find, and continue to benefit accordingly.
You are free to do whatever your preference may be, that's your choice, mine is as above, and whilst I am still free to speak my mind I shall continue to do so regardless of others opinions or preferences who are also free to do the same.
If you are offended, then that is just too bad, as nobody, not here or anywhere else have the right NOT to be offended.

What started out as a post in reply to the OP has been hijacked by the damned PC brigade, or similar virtue signalers, from here on feel free to do it alone, but I will not bet on it, as misery loves company.

 

[thinwater]

"Serious accusation", that is even more amusing... Whilst I am not a reader of Practical sailor, and unlikely to be, I was referring to the popular magazines here in the UK who's covers are re-pleat with advertisements for antifoul, and I repeat'Follow the Money'

Sorry to upset our American cousins, probably Hilary loving democrats. Vote Republican 2020 for the best President you have ever had.

I shall continue to antifoul using chilli powder in the cheapest antifoul medium I can find, and continue to benefit accordingly.
You are free to do whatever your preference may be, that's your choice, mine is as above, and whilst I am still free to speak my mind I shall continue to do so regardless of others opinions or preferences who are also free to do the same.
If you are offended, then that is just too bad, as nobody, not here or anywhere else have the right NOT to be offended.

What started out as a post in reply to the OP has been hijacked by the damned PC brigade, or similar virtue signalers, from here on feel free to do it alone, but I will not bet on it, as misery loves company.

If the facts don't support a given position, the next step is to stoop to personal attacks unrelated to the topic. There is a distressing large portion of the population that won't understand they are being misled by this tactic. It makes them feel strong, I guess.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

If the facts don't support a given position, the next step is to stoop to personal attacks unrelated to the topic. There is a distressing large portion of the population that won't understand they are being misled by this tactic. It makes them feel strong, I guess.

Behave ,what give you any right to pontificate, it's a sailing forum ,don't hijack it because you think your opinion is better than others .

 

[thinwater]

Behave ,what give you any right to pontificate, it's a sailing forum ,don't hijack it because you think your opinion is better than others .

What bothered me were the personal attacks. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing on the facts of the issue--it's all good fun--headlong on attacks on the honesty of writers and personal politics is bad play.

---change in topic---

I believe there may be some misunderstanding of US anti-fouling and waste discharge politics that is worth clarifying.

The US has more areas that have anti-fouling and sanitary waste discharge restrictions because we have more very large estuaries than most countries. The Chesapeake Bay, for example, including the major tributaries and back bays, is about 12% of the area of England and has a drainage basin 20% larger than England. The Great Lakes are another huge area.

What boater discharge regulation reflects is a huge imbalance between the number of boaters (really tiny) and non-boaters (huge) and political realities (restricting boaters is an easy "win" with the larger number of voters). Am I in favor of non-copper paints? No. In fact, the most resent EPA study (Washington state 2019--a left-leaning political region) suggests that copper-free alternatives may be worse. The science is, in fact, very complex. And yet most resent no-dischage zone (Puget Sound) was declared very recently, during the Trump administration, with federal aproval. Copper paints have also been restricted very recently.

Head waste discharge and anti-fouling paints are, in fact, bi-partisan issues. If you look at the number of no-discharge zones declared by majority party over time, you will see near equality and that more were declared during Republican administrations than Democratic administrations. This is NOT a partisan issue.

As a result, US sailors, regardless of personal politics, are VERY interested in copper-free and non-toxic alternatives, not because we are Democrat or Republican, but because the laws are changing and we need options. If someone finds and all-natural alternative, that would be fantastic. The EPA would be all over it.