Best %age for furling headsail?

[orion50]

I am told that furling a headsail causes it to loose shape and pointing ability. Otherwise the bigger the better would seem to be the straightforward answer to my query. Assuming a large headsail (say 140-150%) causes excessive heeling at around 15- 20 knts, therefore rquiring partial furling, would a 130% be a better choice for a general purpose cruising sail? Should one go smaller?
To assist responses, we sail in all weathers mostly F3-5 but occasionally going up to F6/7.

 

[Pete7]

How about a second smaller headsail? we call ours a number 2 but its just a smaller head sail that was converted to roller furling for use in higher winds or if the Genoa blows out.

Pete

 

[BAtoo]

Depends to some extent on the boat. If masthead much of the power comes from the headsail so its possibly a more important choice. On this and my previous fractional rig I have gone for 130% but I think nearer 100% would be better & when finances permit that's my next move.

 

[Tranona]

I am told that furling a headsail causes it to loose shape and pointing ability. Otherwise the bigger the better would seem to be the straightforward answer to my query. Assuming a large headsail (say 140-150%) causes excessive heeling at around 15- 20 knts, therefore rquiring partial furling, would a 130% be a better choice for a general purpose cruising sail? Should one go smaller?
To assist responses, we sail in all weathers mostly F3-5 but occasionally going up to F6/7.

It depends on the boat. suggest you discuss with a sailmaker, preferrably one who is familiar with your boat.

 

[rickym]

It depends very much on the boat.

Our last boat (Sadler 32) had a 150% much too big for general use so we swapped for a 120% much better but under canvassed in light winds less than 10kts. As she was designed for roller furling the drop in size was not really noticeable. We had a foam luff and a couple of rolls put us to a 100% jib.

The boat before was designed for a hank on sail wardrobe and the furler made the jib much smaller than she was designed for so we always felt undercanvassed in under 15kts. As I was mostly sailing with my young children it again was not a problem.

I now have a hank on jib on an inner forestay and a 120% furling genoa.

Pays yer money...

 

[alahol2]

The best furling genoa I ever had was about 120% with a foam luff. What made it a realy good cruising sail was that it was high cut. This meant that the fairleads never needed to be moved and it also meant that one could always see what was ahead. No trying to squint under or round the genny which I find a real pain. Unfortunately my current 150% deck sweeper shows no sign of wearing out, so I can't justify replacing it yet.

 

[Stu Jackson]

In our Catalina 34 racing fleet here on San Fransisco Bay, where the winds during the summer are in the 25 knot true range and can be much less during spring, fall and winter (we race year round), the max headsail size is 130%. The masthead rigs are driven by the headsail, so the first reef is NOT the headsail, but the mainsail. When I was actively racing, my largest headsail was a 110% (with an 85% for reallly strong wind days). I never reefed my headsail, but rather chose the proper headsail for the conditions. I run the smaller headsail during the summer high wind periods, the 110 during the lighter winter season, but when racing used the 110 all the time, reefing the main first if needed (and sometimes we did!).

Conversely, folks in other parts of the country (i.e., outside SF Bay) use much larger headsails, but have to cope with the vagaries of the wind, sometimes very high, often light, and they choose at least 135's (which are the factory standard), or even larger and have trouble reefing.

Your boat, your choice, but my boat keeps moving in light air even with just the 110.

 

[ditchcrawler]

My Moody 31 with masthead rig had a 150% genny but was over canvassed above f3.I renewed the sails buying a nice triradial laminate and changed to a 130%.This is much better and I start reefing the main at 19/20 knots apparent but can hold the genny a bit longer.It is also much easier to handle whilst tacking.It has foam luff and is a reasonable shape when furled.I might loose a bit in light airs and use the cruising chute downwind.Overall the smaller sail is much more practical.Just my opinion of course.

 

[PeterGibbs]

I am told that furling a headsail causes it to loose shape and pointing ability. Otherwise the bigger the better would seem to be the straightforward answer to my query. Assuming a large headsail (say 140-150%) causes excessive heeling at around 15- 20 knts, therefore rquiring partial furling, would a 130% be a better choice for a general purpose cruising sail? Should one go smaller?
To assist responses, we sail in all weathers mostly F3-5 but occasionally going up to F6/7.

On delivery of our new boat I had a 135% genny - mighty load of canvas that was. Soon landed that and replaced it with a high cut 100% jib that you can really tension for pointing, and, as you surmise will not leave you screwing all over the sea in 5+ gusts.

It seems to me that the way most production boats are rigged a big foresail rarely meets conditions where's it's worth its other limitations - weight and shape loss in furling etc. The main will power in most circumstances and a sensilbe sized jib plays its part in heading to wind; but in so many conditions I recall the foresail gets blanketed by the main (we like a following breeze and sea, don't you?)

I guess there is a point where afficionados dump the main and pole out a big genny hanging on to the wheel (can't let anyone else steer, they would lose control wouldn't they!) Not for me - for you?

PWG

 

[haydude]

I am told that furling a headsail causes it to loose shape and pointing ability. Otherwise the bigger the better would seem to be the straightforward answer to my query. Assuming a large headsail (say 140-150%) causes excessive heeling at around 15- 20 knts, therefore rquiring partial furling, would a 130% be a better choice for a general purpose cruising sail? Should one go smaller?
To assist responses, we sail in all weathers mostly F3-5 but occasionally going up to F6/7.

In your case a Genoa no. 2 (up to 130%) would be the better choice, which is what I see is the most popular size in the UK where a Genoa no. 1 would be also heavy and big to handle (well that depends on the boat size, but on my 42ft the no.1 is huge and heavy).
Also consider the average weather condition, if you do not mind sailing when there are chances of rain, you do not want a wet no.1.

For the rare UK lighter breeze you can always consider a second hand Gennaker that does not have to be perfect if only occasionally used.

BTW I am not sure what posters above talk about when they mention a genny. I thougth that was short for Gennaker, but it seems they mean Genoa.

 

[mixmaster]

I'm going to be somewhat contrarian and suggest you don't under-canvas your boat. In a cruising context where you don't want to be changing headsails all the time, what conditions do you want your boats sweet spot to be for? 10-15 knots or more than 20? You often see cruising boats motoring when with better sail selection they could be sailing and then sitting in the harbour because it's too windy.
This discussion is only relevant when sailing to windward. If it's honking and you're going downwind, sail shape is not nearly as important.
So with a boat rigged for lighter conditions and a furler the only time you'll be disadvantaged is in strong winds to windward - probably the time when as a cruiser you'll choose not to sail.
On our boat, with a headsail driven masthead rig, we have a 140% genny, 100% jib, staysail and a large running assymetric spinnaker.
The small jib and staysail gets very little action.

 

[Stu Jackson]

BTW I am not sure what posters above talk about when they mention a genny. I thougth that was short for Gennaker, but it seems they mean Genoa.

I agree. The transformation of simple words to ones ending in "...nny" gags me.

tranny = transmission

genny = genoa (even has same number of letters, why not just type it correctly?!?)

spinny = spinnaker

There are probably a few more I've missed.

Anyone?

Consider me gagged.

 

[alan_d]

I agree. The transformation of simple words to ones ending in "...nny" gags me.

genny = genoa (even has same number of letters, why not just type it correctly?!?)

Except that most sailing people will say "Genoa" much more often than they will type it.

"Genoa" has three syllables, "jenny" has only two, a 33% saving.

 

[JimC]

Obviously a lot depends on the boat but I think big overlaps on headsails aren't always worthwhile and the increase in drive is not in proportion to the increase in area. I think around 120% would be a good figure for many boats. The percentage is of the fore-triangle, i.e. the area contained by the mast, forestay, and the line joining the forestay fitting to the heel of the mast.

 

[KellysEye]

>I am told that furling a headsail causes it to loose shape and pointing ability

I have never heard that before and don't believe it, it's certainly not my experience. Only use, particularly in strong winds, causes a loss of shape. The less fibre in the sail (i.e. cheap) the quicker it will happen.

 

[vyv_cox]

My Sadler 34, a masthead rigged boat with a relatively small mainsail, has a 130% genoa. AFAIK this is the standard size as originally supplied. It seems to me to be pretty much the perfect size for cruising, upwind we can carry it unreefed to about 20 knots apparent.

I have a ghoster of about 150%, it would be far too big for general use and made in a cloth that would stand up to use in stronger winds when reefed would be extremely heavy.

I also have a No.3 jib, perhaps 85%. This is superb in force 6, far better than the reefed genoa, but it's large and we don't usually have space for it when cruising, unfortunately.

 

[gandy]

The best furling genoa I ever had was about 120% with a foam luff. What made it a realy good cruising sail was that it was high cut. This meant that the fairleads never needed to be moved and it also meant that one could always see what was ahead. No trying to squint under or round the genny which I find a real pain. Unfortunately my current 150% deck sweeper shows no sign of wearing out, so I can't justify replacing it yet.

Hi .. do you mean that you could leave the fairleads in the same place even when the sail was part-furled? That would be very handy, but I'd always thought not possible.

 

[alahol2]

Hi .. do you mean that you could leave the fairleads in the same place even when the sail was part-furled? That would be very handy, but I'd always thought not possible.

Yes, I specifically asked the sailmaker (can't think of his name now, but I know he changed to another business) for a sail which allowed the fairleads to stay in place when furled to varying degrees. The high cut of the sail came as a result of that requirement. Sailing mainly in the Solent, I found the high cut probably more useful for it's superior visibility.

 

[mixmaster]

Obviously a lot depends on the boat but I think big overlaps on headsails aren't always worthwhile and the increase in drive is not in proportion to the increase in area. I think around 120% would be a good figure for many boats. The percentage is of the fore-triangle, i.e. the area contained by the mast, forestay, and the line joining the forestay fitting to the heel of the mast.

Not technically correct. The percentage refers to the LP or luff perpendicular. That is a line perpendicular to the front edge of the sail led between the clew and the luff. A 100% genoa is where the LP equals the J measurement, 130% genoa equals 1.3 x J etc...