Berthing scenario - advice ...??

[misterg]

If one was the red boat in the picture below, trying to return to the berth outlined in green, how would you go about it?

32' AWB - prop kicks the stern to port (fairly strongly) in reverse.
Wind gusty ~F5 (16-25 kts indicated) blowing from NNW (assuming N is straight up).
Almost at the end of an alley, drawing is roughly to scale.
One novice crew + you.

(Edit: turned the wind arrow around after post #6 - please note!)

Your thoughts...

Andy

 

[JayBee]

Wind gusty ~F5 (16-25 kts indicated) blowing from NNW (assuming N is straight up).

Nice picture.

Your drawing shows the wind blowing from the SSE.

Anyway, assuming that's the case, I would put some fenders on the port side and go onto the port hand finger. You'll probably end up there, anyway, so best to make it look intentional.

Once the boat has come to a stop, haul or winch the boat onto your berth.

I would also do this if there was another boat on the port hand finger.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Doesn't look difficult. Start closer to the bows of the upwind yachts. Drive in dead slow. Stop the boat on a midships spring. Any tide?

 

[mcframe]

Doesn't look difficult. Start closer to the bows of the upwind yachts. Drive in dead slow. Stop the boat on a midships spring. Any tide?

Which way does the boat kick astern?

I'd stay close to the bows of the upwind boats, overshoot slightly - to the bow of the last boat - stop, let my bow blow round, then use a touch astern to help and pull my stern into the port pontoon and put the kettle on. While it's boiling, I'd warp it over to the starboard pontoon

With the wind up the chuff, I'd have the crew on a midships spring and chuck 'em the bow line when I step off to do the stern line.

If the port slot is full, I'd do the same thing, but still fend that side (crew on a roving fender) and get it alongside in tickover astern.

 

[misterg]

Sorry, have I buggered up my arrow? - the wind is blowing almost top to bottom (from NNE), so the line of anchors-on-bows is the downwind side (bottom of picture).

No tide.

Ta.

Andy

 

[jimi]

reverse in, you'll stern bore and have perfect control

 

[misterg]

Which way does the boat kick astern?

I'd stay close to the bows of the upwind boats....

Stern kicks to port - quite strongly. Note that the wind is blowing from top to bottom of the picture (I've changed the direction of the arrow in the picture).

reverse in, you'll stern bore and have perfect control

Hmm. I wondered about that:

a) But not until I was in the position shown; and:
b) I've never reversed in this sort of wind to get a feel for how the boat reacts (there's a lesson there!)
c) I'm wary of getting pinned against the line of anchors down wind.

I suspect it's the right answer, though.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

With the wind in the NNE (assuming North Up Chart) you have three options.

The first is to go past the berth, do a 180 degree turn to starboard, the prop walk will assist with this just be careful that the wind does not keep blowing you bow downwind once you are through the turn Approach so that the berth is open. Keep the bow high of the berth as it will easily get blown on but DO NOT allow the bow to cross the eye of the wind so that it is blowing on the starboard bow. Aim not to use any reverse if possible on the approach as it will mess up your stearing. Make sure forward fenders are hung.

Option 2 is to reverse down the fairway keeping the bow up to the upwind boats. Stop, move into forward and then follow the same technique as above from after the turn.

Both of the above are OK for light/mod winds but not stronger winds

The third and my preferred option is to enter the berth stern first. Make your way down the fairway in forwards keeping to the upwind side. Once your stern is just past the berth you want dip the bow, stop and allow the wind to blow the bow further downwind. Once the boat is stern to wind, dip the bow a little further and use nudges of astern to slow down your forward movement and straighten the stern up while reversing in. Ensure fenders are on the port quarter.

 

[DJE]

Two lessons that were drummed in to me long ago were:-
Never enter a marina aisle without a plan for getting out again, and If you're going to go in astern get the boat moving in astern in clear water before moving into a confined area. Having said that this doesn't look too bad; the escape route is easy with a good burst of power and rudder to starboard to push the bow throught the wind, then windage on the bow and prop walk astern will complete the turn.
With my boat I'd crab up the aisle as shown in your picture, using short bursts of power and rudder to starboard to keep the bow up, then approach head to wind using a spring to stop her. If the stern springs out as you stop then motor gently against the spring with rudder to port to bring it back in.
If that plan doesn't work escape as above find some clear water to get her moving in astern and come all the way in backwards. Final approach will then be simple as the boat will hang on her prop and the bows will weathercock downwind.

 

[lw395]

I don't see why this is a problem.
Just turn into the berth and stop. Gentle use of throttle to balance the wind, the small W component of the wind takes the bow toward the finger. Aim to put the centre cleat close to the end of the finger.
Secure with a midships line, then stern and bowlines and walk the boat forward to its parking place.
The main thing is to keep steerage way on until the bow is past head to wind, or the bow will blow around. If this happens, quickly adopt plan B and back in.

If you don't know how the boat stops or turns in the breeze, get out into some space and have a quick practice.
So for preparation, some fenders and a midships line on each side. A bow line, and possibly a stern line each side if there is so much clutter on the aft rail that you can't quickly take a line around the back.
Avoid reversing in tight spaces and cross winds unless you really know the boat, imho.

Oh, and you might think, 'there's no tide', but be prepared for it to appear from nowhere

 

[footsoldier]

The third and my preferred option is to enter the berth stern first. Make your way down the fairway in forwards keeping to the upwind side. Once your stern is just past the berth you want dip the bow, stop and allow the wind to blow the bow further downwind. Once the boat is stern to wind, dip the bow a little further and use nudges of astern to slow down your forward movement and straighten the stern up while reversing in. Ensure fenders are on the port quarter.

I agree, on the average boat with a furled headsail gving windage, this would be my instinctive approach. Once you are stern to wind, the windage at the bow will give a weathercock effect and will hold her straight as you reverse. In a stiff breeze this will rapidly damp down the initial effect of the prop-walk.

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

To me going in stern first makes sense, particularly as you can see more clearly what you're going to hit!

 

[Robin]

Nobody so far has mentioned that making a starboard (right) turn into a starboard side-to finger the boat will 'skid' away from the finger. Safest IMO is to assume this skid effect and go slightly past the berth before turning in at a 30 deg angle now towards the finger and approaching from the other direction. Have a centre spring line ready to drop over the outer cleat of the pontoon. Go in with enough speed for control (easier as the wind is mostly from ahead not behind) and as you arrive turn sharply to port to put the boat parallel to the finger at the same time using hard reverse to stop. The normal prop kick to port will be cancelled out by the momentum of the stern still turning in towards the pontoon. Put the spring line on the outer cleat of the pontoon and once on hold the boat in position with the engine in forward gear on tickover and wheel over to port. Have fenders in normal place but with one farther forward off the starboard bow because as the spring tightens the bow will turn in. If short handed the centre spring line could be threaded through the centre cleat and back round a sheet winch to the helmsman to control and we used to do that in strange berths using a large snap hook to clip on the finger, big enough for the closed loop and 'D' ends of French pontoons for example.

If you have enough room to the west, going past, turning 180 degs and approaching from there is also feasible, same caveat about the skid effect and using the in-swinging stern to counter the prop kick in reverse.

This was a normal procedure for us as our prop kicked to port in astern and we had a starboard side finger, usually in our case with an unfriendly SW wind driving us forwards as well.

Another option is to go port side to in the vacant berth and winch the boat across afterwards.

Going in astern would work but only if you really have confidence in that from previous practice, strong winds first time not the best time to try!

 

[Cliveshep]

I admit I drive a mobo, but it's a single screw on a shaft so the problems are similar except my prop paddles to starboard in reverse. I would aim the bow at the port side of the gap, as the bow enters the gap go astern, the bow will go starboard, the stern to port thus lining you up, you then just drive in ahead. The wind, given the direction you indicate might assist in blowing your bow off to starboard but the angle on the bow looks to be fairly insignificant.

That is a simple procedure. Getting back out the bow should be held on spring to control the swing into the vessel to starboard until clear, or simply tie a fender where you are likely to hit if you swing too much, paddle effect will pull the stern to port and bow to starboard, then going ahead you can steer to just drive off. Frankly, I'd get the boat moving with stern way and blip ahead to correct any unwanted swing before continuing astern.

Reversing in is far more difficult, why bother?

 

[doug748]

I think Cliveshep has given a good solution. You would have to be careful when hitting reverse. As the wind and prop kick are acting together the bow will pay off with alarming speed.

 

[awol]

Either the effects of my ne'erday imbibations are still with me or I've been under the misapprehension that AWBs are easy to park. I can't see the problem.

Your scenario would be a doddle in a CO32, a boat that is not particularly marina friendly, but with your port bow wind she would almost park herself. Getting her to stop and stay in the port-to berth would be much more of a challenge.

 

[jwilson]

I don't see why this is a problem.
Just turn into the berth and stop. Gentle use of throttle to balance the wind, the small W component of the wind takes the bow toward the finger. Aim to put the centre cleat close to the end of the finger.
Secure with a midships line, then stern and bowlines and walk the boat forward to its parking place.
The main thing is to keep steerage way on until the bow is past head to wind, or the bow will blow around. If this happens, quickly adopt plan B and back in.

On my AWB your plan would not work. You might well get the boat onto the port side finger, but probably not the starboard one. With a short deep fin there's virtually no resistance to blowing sideways once your speed drops, and with all the windage of mast and furled headsail forward you probably wouldn't even get the bow though the wind if going slowly.

Done fastish with a big burst of astern to stop the port finger would be OK, then just hold on bow warps and ease her across. Usually though there's another boat there - not the luxury of a double space.

I'd go in forwards, just past the berth, then back up in. If the plan's to scale there's plenty of room, though our local marina's much much tighter!

 

[misterg]

Thank you all for the replies

...go slightly past the berth before turning in at a 30 deg angle now towards the finger and approaching from the other direction.

This nicely describes my usual approach to the berth, but I knew that the bow would blow off to stbd if I tried that approach. There's normally another boat in the vacant berth to the left of the green one, but it was empty at the time.

(For general info: I normally use a mid-ships spring to the end of the finger as the first attachment, and can normally manage this single handed - leaving the engine in ahead, rudder hard to port while I get the other lines attached.)

With my boat I'd crab up the aisle as shown in your picture, using short bursts of power and rudder to starboard to keep the bow up, then approach head to wind using a spring to stop her.

Just turn into the berth and stop. Gentle use of throttle to balance the wind, the small W component of the wind takes the bow toward the finger. ...
The main thing is to keep steerage way on until the bow is past head to wind, or the bow will blow around.

...I would aim the bow at the port side of the gap, as the bow enters the gap go astern, the bow will go starboard, the stern to port thus lining you up, you then just drive in ahead.

If I've understood correctly, that's basically what I tried to do - I entered the berth roughly head to wind with the expectation that I could ease the bow through the wind and settle gently onto the finger as it started to blow off. I tried not to use reverse after a little burst when making the initial turn into the berth as I knew it would kick us around, which meant I was going quite slowly once the boat was ~ 1/2 way into the berth.

...the bow will pay off with alarming speed.

It did

I tried to counter it with rudder hard to port & a burst of ahead which did stop the bow hitting the finger, but resulted in the boat 'pirhouetting' (if that's the best description??) into the finger, neatly rolling the fenders out of the way in the process and making That Squeak (You know the one which resounds around the marina and makes everyone stop and look )

Not disasterous (a few scuffs on the gel coat) but very disappointing because I *thought* I had a plan, and it didn't work, so I am curious to know if there is a "better way".

I know already that if I was doing it again I would put my biggest, fattest fenders fwd stbd (just had one measly thin one) and rather than going in faster, I would aim just to get the midships cleat level with the end of the finger, rather than aiming for the 'fully parked' position.

Thanks all.

Andy

 

[Moodyjim]

With the wind in the NNE
The third and my preferred option is to enter the berth stern first. Make your way down the fairway in forwards keeping to the upwind side. Once your stern is just past the berth you want dip the bow, stop and allow the wind to blow the bow further downwind. Once the boat is stern to wind, dip the bow a little further and use nudges of astern to slow down your forward movement and straighten the stern up while reversing in. Ensure fenders are on the port quarter.

This would be my favourite although my new boat does tend to blow sideways a bit more now there's a gantry on her!

 

[Cliveshep]

As posted in the other thread about mooring single-handed, one of the joys of boating is being safely tied up somewhere watching the unfolding disasters as yotties attempt to maneuver or tie up in a crowded marina. They happily sail the seven seas so competently and cock it up so completely once entering a harbour.

First came to that realisation whilst moored below Potter Heigham bridge on the Broads many years ago, how the bridge survives to this day is a tribute to the capabilities of it's ancient builders. The antics of hire cruisers, even with the mandatory pilot aboard, were quite astonishing, the cries of dismay as yet another windscreen was ripped off a private cruiser delightful, and as to the attempts by the unwise and unskilled to enter the marina of Herbert Woods in a cross wind - oh boy - priceless!

I'm just a cruel and sadistic person I suppose!