Berthing article in MBY

[Elessar]

Now I know Mendez can drive a boat. So the edit must have mucked it up but when they write an article like this they need to get it right.

Picture 5. A touch of port astern will pull the stern to port. No it wont! Other statements get it right but if you are trying to learn from the article it needs to be consitently correct.

 

[blueglass]

Now I know Mendez can drive a boat. So the edit must have mucked it up but when they write an article like this they need to get it right.

Picture 5. A touch of port astern will pull the stern to port. No it wont! Other statements get it right but if you are trying to learn from the article it needs to be consitently correct.

probably just an innocent typo but anybody who actually needs to be told what a touch of port astern will do could easily be confused!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I thought this Mendez video which accompanies the article contained some excellent advice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjtk8FyaaRU

 

[Hurricane]

I thought this Mendez video which accompanies the article contained some excellent advice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjtk8FyaaRU

Yep useful video
Ahh - Cala D'Or
Yep a bit tight in there and it was a bit windy when we were in there last summer - we were right at the end of the cala.
IMO it was not at all like going up and down the Hamble.
Like Jon was doing in this video it was engine in/out port/starboard all the time - with the Hamble you can keep the engines (or an engine) "in gear" all the time.
Cala D'Or was a fun one - not too difficult but you have to concentrate all the time and there isn't really space to have a "safe side" as Jon says in the video.

I think Jon should have given some advice to the yachtie guy who came in and completely screwed it up, damaging a number of large motor boats at the end of the cala - but thats another story

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yep useful video
Ahh - Cala D'Or
Yep a bit tight in there and it was a bit windy when we were in there last summer - we were right at the end of the cala.
IMO it was not at all like going up and down the Hamble.
Like Jon was doing in this video it was engine in/out port/starboard all the time - with the Hamble you can keep the engines (or an engine) "in gear" all the time.
Cala D'Or was a fun one - not too difficult but you have to concentrate all the time and there isn't really space to have a "safe side" as Jon says in the video.

Yup Cala d'Or can be a bit of a bottom clencher in a breeze especially at the top end where it always seems to be windy. However for a bit more of an adrenalin rush, I would nominate Bonifacio on a windy day with an inexperienced crew. Its even tighter than Cala d'Or, the berths are all beam on to the wind, there are trip boats on a mission trying to bully their way past you, other boats trying to hold station for the fuel berth, mad French yotties completely oblivious to what you're about to do and thousands of onlookers sitting in cafes just willing that rich git on his fancy gin palace to clout something and make their day. Great place though; loved it there once I got the boat tied up to something solid

 

[Hurricane]

Yup Cala d'Or can be a bit of a bottom clencher in a breeze especially at the top end where it always seems to be windy. However for a bit more of an adrenalin rush, I would nominate Bonifacio on a windy day with an inexperienced crew. Its even tighter than Cala d'Or, the berths are all beam on to the wind, there are trip boats on a mission trying to bully their way past you, other boats trying to hold station for the fuel berth, mad French yotties completely oblivious to what you're about to do and thousands of onlookers sitting in cafes just willing that rich git on his fancy gin palace to clout something and make their day. Great place though; loved it there once I got the boat tied up to something solid

Agreed
When we arrived in Bonifacio, we had just been through some really nasty stuff - driving from inside etc.
The wind was funnelling down the whole port form the sea to the quay at the end.
I called on the radio and they put is on the end quay so we had to turn the boat round (bow into the wind) and stern berth against a lee quay - as you say real "bottom clenching" stuff.
When I look back on it, there actually wasn't a problem but the things that go through your mind in those situations - like - how the hell am I going to control this situation.

However, the most difficult that I've had was with just SWMBO and I in Valencia.
Nothing special about Valencia but it was just the two of us and about 25 knots of wind blowing us back onto a concrete quay.
Again stern to mooring.
To make it more difficult, the wind was about 30 degrees off the port bow.
I had to stay on the FB to control the boat the best I could whilst SWMBO did everything else.
I remember shouting to the dockmasters saying that I wanted a line on the bow - NOW
They looked at me and said - She's doing it now!! - by the time I got down, she was already on the second lazy line so all we need to do was winch ourselves in.
What a team!!!
But it was very much one of those "bottom clenching" moments.
It was this incident when I decided that we need to be able to talk to each other when we are doing this stuff - hence our new Bluetooth headsets - they are brilliant.

 

[kcrane]

I decided that we need to be able to talk to each other when we are doing this stuff - hence our new Bluetooth headsets - they are brilliant.

Tell us more...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

It was this incident when I decided that we need to be able to talk to each other when we are doing this stuff - hence our new Bluetooth headsets - they are brilliant.

Unfortunately I didn't have my SWMBO on board for my second trip to Bonifacio, just a bunch of boozed up mates who didn't really know what to do and yes I did try to give them some clear instructions beforehand but like all of us blokes, it went in one ear and out the other. The bowthruster and a marinero saved the day thank heavens. With the SWMBO on board, we've thought about headsets but she knows what's she's doing and she knows how I like to handle the boat so if we have to communicate, its usually through the occasional hand signal. Apart from that, I learnt long ago that issuing instructions usually results in her stomping off with the words 'well do it yourself then' ringing in my ears

 

[Griffin Marine]

Now I know Mendez can drive a boat. So the edit must have mucked it up but when they write an article like this they need to get it right.

Picture 5. A touch of port astern will pull the stern to port. No it wont! Other statements get it right but if you are trying to learn from the article it needs to be consitently correct.

TYPO definartly
Tim

 

[MapisM]

I remember shouting to the dockmasters saying that I wanted a line on the bow - NOW

Apologies if I'm teaching granma to suck eggs, but having always moored stern to with no thrusters at all, I feel entitled to throw in my 2c.
Imho, it's a bit risky to just trust the crew speed in carrying the upwind ground line to the bow and secure it, in crosswind.
It's better to secure (ONLY!) the upwind stern line first - which can obviously be done PDQ.
Once that line is secured, a touch of the downwind engine forward (in and out, as required) is more than enough to keep the bow from drifting, for as long as necessary to secure also the upwind ground line with no hurry.
As an aside, not only this works with boats without the b/t, but if the helmsman must use the b/t to contrast the wind, there's also some risk of getting the lazy part of the ground line sucked and tangled in the b/t.
I've seen that happening a couple of times, and THAT makes for a hairy situation indeed!
Even worse than the most typical nightmare of anyone relying completely on the b/t - i.e. the thermal switch tripping off...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

It's better to secure (ONLY!) the upwind stern line first - which can obviously be done PDQ.
Once that line is secured, a touch of the downwind engine forward (in and out, as required) is more than enough to keep the bow from drifting, for as long as necessary to secure also the upwind ground line with no hurry.
As an aside, not only this works with boats without the b/t, but if the helmsman must use the b/t to contrast the wind, there's also some risk of getting the lazy part of the ground line sucked and tangled in the b/t.
I've seen that happening a couple of times, and THAT makes for a hairy situation indeed!
Even worse than the most typical nightmare of anyone relying completely on the b/t - i.e. the thermal switch tripping off...

Good advice, Mapism but with the large props fitted to planing boats, that technique puts a big load on the line and any cleats it is attached to. Also if you keep going in and out of gear the load snatches on the line too. But I'll certainly give it a try next time I'm in that situation (such as the one in St Maria di Navaresse the other day!)

 

[MapisM]

Actually, props are typically larger on D boats, for any given hull size.
On P boats, it's the speed range which is much wider, and that implies longer (higher pitch) props, and higher min speed.
In fact, with my trawler, in the above situation, I can normally leave the downwind engine constantly in gear.
And a few times, with the wind blowing real hard, I had to use also a bit of throttle.

But I perfectly see your point, and fully agree with it: the maneuver I suggested is definitely a bit more tricky with (relatively) light and powerful vessels, compared to the heavier and less powerful ones, whose reactions are slower and more controllable.

That said, I'd expect a proper stern line and cleat to withstand that sort of load, and then some...
...though I wouldn't have trusted 100% that loose cleat in S.M.N. for this type of maneuver, to be honest!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Actually, props are typically larger on D boats, for any given hull size.
On P boats, it's the speed range which is much wider, and that implies longer (higher pitch) props, and higher min speed.

Yes, of course, you are correct

 

[BartW]

with the large props fitted to planing boats, that technique puts a big load on the line and any cleats it is attached to. Also if you keep going in and out of gear the load snatches on the line too.

yes,
just one or two snatches correctly dosed wan't do any harm,
but this summer in one occasion, in a Port moored stern too quay,
during the night with thunderstorm, a VERY big swell coming in to the Port, got the bow anker to release, (even after a second redrop earlyer that day,)
we had to put the engines in FWD, to keep the boat away from the quay, during almost 30 minutes.
some strong snatches on the lines (from thrust + swell) produced crack's around the stern fairleads on both sides,
another todo job on the list for this winter

 

[mad_boater]

All of these boart handling video's look great until your faced with the the last hour of a springs ebb and a strong west or east wind reversing into a finger berth in East Cowes or Port Hamble Marina with SWMBO being your only crew.
As the panic sets in all the theory melts away as you're swept or blown like a leaf on a pond towards imminent crunching of fibreglass.

Now that's one video I would like to see.

The only boat I could ever feel confident under any circumstances was my old semi displacement Birchwood. After 11 yrs of ownership I could moor up single handed if my wife was feeling lazy.
I could make that old tub talk.Thought I was clever until I had a full planing hull.

 

[Hurricane]

Tell us more...

I posted this idea on another thread
I've always had a problem knowing what SWMBO is doing - she always seems to get it right but it is helpful to me if I could speak to her even if I can't see her.
I don't have a third control station - that would be helpful but not the complete answer.
From the FB, I can't see the back of the bathing platform - I use docking cameras but they only really show the boat in relation to the quay and miss what the crew are doing.
So, I thought that some simple headsets would be a great idea.
They must be easy to use or SWMBO (and I) just wouldn't use them.
No wires - no fuss - and keep one ear clear for conversations with the dock masters etc.

I ended up building my own ones from a motorbike intercom - they have a range of about 100 yards so plenty long enough for the job I had in mind.

Here's s pic of the end result

And a close up

All we have to do is to press one of the buttons on each headset for about 10 secs and they set themselves to talk to each other - full duplex - no PTT buttons.

Since building them, I have found one supplier of a similar product at about £180 each (from memory)
I made these for about £35 each
They work so well, I won't be buying the more expensive ones
I've brought them home to do a better job - I've already made them more robust - next job is to fit a landyard so to avoid loosing them if they slip off.

BTW - they work well for anchoring - we (SWMBO) always deploy and recover the anchor using the windlass controller on the foredeck so communication to the FB is helpful.

 

[kcrane]

I ended up building my own ones from a motorbike intercom - they have a range of about 100 yards so plenty long enough for the job I had in mind. I made these for about £35 each. I've already made them more robust - next job is to fit a landyard so to avoid loosing them if they slip off. BTW - they work well for anchoring - we (SWMBO) always deploy and recover the anchor using the windlass controller on the foredeck so communication to the FB is helpful.

Yep, same as us, SWMBO does the anchor from foredeck, I do as I am hold via hand signals.

So, are you going to produce several sets for sale, it could be a Kickstarter project - I'll pre-order one (depending on the mark up of course )

 

[Hurricane]

All of these boart handling video's look great until your faced with the the last hour of a springs ebb and a strong west or east wind reversing into a finger berth in East Cowes or Port Hamble Marina with SWMBO being your only crew.
As the panic sets in all the theory melts away as you're swept or blown like a leaf on a pond towards imminent crunching of fibreglass.

Now that's one video I would like to see.

The only boat I could ever feel confident under any circumstances was my old semi displacement Birchwood. After 11 yrs of ownership I could moor up single handed if my wife was feeling lazy.
I could make that old tub talk.Thought I was clever until I had a full planing hull.

I agree.
We used to keep our old boat at Mercury. Sometimes, the flow of water and wind combine to make it very difficult to get into the berths.
An instructor once gave me a useful tip.
Under those conditions, drive the boat backwards up the fairway keeping the stern upstream - the stern is always the bit to get right (as in Jon's video).
If you loose control of the stern you've lost everything.
Maybe control the bow with a thruster but it is the stern that needs to be in the correct position.

 

[Hurricane]

Yep, same as us, SWMBO does the anchor from foredeck, I do as I am hold via hand signals.

So, are you going to produce several sets for sale, it could be a Kickstarter project - I'll pre-order one (depending on the mark up of course )

************************************************************************
I posted this reply and then deleted it because the important item linked to below isn't available.
I've since found it on Ebay so I am posting this reply again

The following was posted on another thread
If anyone is interested, I can start a new thread with more details.
They are dead easy to build.

Note that the Motorcycle Headsets listed below are not available
These from Ebay seem to be the same devices
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bluetooth...59?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item20efa84533

************************************************************************


I've revived this thread because I've had a bit of success.
In fact verging on the side of BRILLIANT
A DIY - in boat - communications system using a headset - exactly as I explained in my first post on this thread.

Since starting this thread, I have often spent a few hours browsing to see if anything new has popped up.
Last month, a friend showed me this link http://www.panbo.com/archives/2014/08/cruising_solutions_headsets_testing_the_bluetooth_update.html
Which shows details of bespoke kit designed to address the problem.
However, this solution is a bit pricy - especially if it doesn't work or gets ignored by SWMBO - then it would be a complete waste of money.

Anyway, earlier in the summer, I had already started to put a solution together.
It was unfortunate that an important item that I needed came from the US and got held up in extra security so, I wasn't able to build anything in time for our summer cruise.
But we got home for a few days in the middle of August and it was all waiting for me to put together.

So this is the kit of parts that I used

2 of these from Amazon - Bluetooth Headsets - the electronics on these will be discarded.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008HUSO3A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

1 pack of these from B & Q - Black Plastic Castor Cups
http://www.diy.com/departments/bq-black-plastic-castor-cup-dia40mm-pack-of-4/241753_BQ.prd

2 of these - Motorcycle Headsets - this site implies that they are in the UK but in fact they are shipped from the US
http://uk.cellphoneshop.net/motorcycle.html

My original plan was to use the "Bluetooth Headsets" and connect them electronically to the "Motorcycle Headsets"
But it was a fairly easy job to pull the "Bluetooth Headsets" apart and fit the "Motorcycle Headsets" in place of the Bluetooth Headset's electronics.

The Black Plastic Castor Cups from B&Q are just the right size to connect the Motorcycle Headsets to the frame left after the Bluetooth Headsets electronics have been removed.

So thats
£16.99 each for the Bluetooth Headsets
£2.98 for Black Plastic Castor Cups
and £17.35 each for the Motorcycle Headsets

These Motorcycle Headsets are great - they use the Class 1 Bluetooth standard to communicate thus giving them a range of 100 yards or so.
Well within the range that we want on the boat.

Here are some pics of my solution

So, to use them, you simply switch them on (by pressing and holding a button for 8 secs) and then put them on your head.
It is that simple.

And we have even started using them for setting and recovering the anchor. When anchoring in the islands, we look for a turquoise patch of water and drop the anchor over it. SWMBO always uses the curly wire hand remote on the bow and directs me to maneuver the boat accordingly. She also directs me when we recover the anchor so that we keep any load on the windlass to a minimum. Using these headsets, it is MUCH easier to communicate - you wouldn't believe how much easier it is until you have experienced it.

These DIY headsets are so good that I can now justify the expense of the ones reviewed in Panbo in the link above.
However, these work so well that I don't think I will need to buy the purpose made ones anyway.

There is one very small enhancement - to see if it all worked, I simply used the double sided sticky and velcro that came with the Motorcycle Kit.
I'm on the boat at the moment but I will be bringing the headsets home and fit them more securely using small nuts and bolts - just to make the whole thing more robust.

As I said in my first post, SWMBO and I often stern berth JW on our own and during the exercise, I loose sight of her. It is much better to chat between each other so that we know what each of us is doing - this solution also keeps one ear free so that she can communicate with dockmasters etc - in fact the microphones are so good, I can hear what they are saying back to her (through her mic).

We had our kids out last week and they used these headsets as well - this is a real step forward so safe docking/anchoring.
You really wouldn't believe how good they are unless you experience it.
We will definitely be using them.

 

[gjgm]

, I learnt long ago that issuing instructions usually results in her stomping off with the words 'well do it yourself then' ringing in my ears

With the minor size of my boat, I have found visual signals work fine (from SWMBO)
-sharp turning of head =WHAT did you just say?
_hands on hips in good humour= you are making a right mess of this
-hand on hips (aggressive)=one more ********* word and this boat hook isnt going to be used for mooring the boat
-hand on hips and extended eye contact= it is going to be cheaper just to bash the boat than continue this discussion
-waving of hand in various motions= well, I ve still not understood what this means
I am sure that having a larger boat risks loosing this marital closeness ?