Benny First 32 or Sadler 32?

[Tintin]

So the search extends to Sadler 34's too - deep fin or shallow fin? Is there a big difference in performance especially to windward?

 

[sailorman]

So the search extends to Sadler 34's too - deep fin or shallow fin? Is there a big difference in performance especially to windward?

the 34s with 2 legs dont go to windward

Exit stage left

 

[DJE]

So the search extends to Sadler 34's too - deep fin or shallow fin? Is there a big difference in performance especially to windward?

There is a lot of prejudice about keel choice. But some objective information here:-

http://www.mikelucasyachting.co.uk/sadler-starlight-boats/articles/keel-choice.pdf

I have a twin keel Sadler 29 and I have no problems with the windward performance. But occasionally the root of the windward keel breaks the surface and casuses some slamming when hard pressed. Wind strength and particularly sea state have much more effect on upwind speed than type of keel in the Sadlers. Lightweight Beneteau 21 and 24 footers sail away from me in a F3 or less but once we get into a F4 or F5, particularly to windward, I leave them for dead. So a 30 foot Beneteau would be an interesting comparision. Interestingly one of our club members has just bought a First 30 but I haven't had a chance to sail against him yet.

 

[vyv_cox]

So the search extends to Sadler 34's too - deep fin or shallow fin? Is there a big difference in performance especially to windward?

I have raced several times against a deep fin 34 in our shallow fin version. He is a keen racer. We outpoint him by a good 5 degrees, probably to do with sail condition. The only time I feel we could benefit from a deep fin is in the typical square waves of the Med, where I feel our leeway is excessive. In most conditions I doubt very much that anyone could tell the difference.

 

[Tintin]

I have raced several times against a deep fin 34 in our shallow fin version. He is a keen racer. We outpoint him by a good 5 degrees, probably to do with sail condition. The only time I feel we could benefit from a deep fin is in the typical square waves of the Med, where I feel our leeway is excessive. In most conditions I doubt very much that anyone could tell the difference.

Thanks for the info.

 

[FullCircle]

There is a lot of prejudice about keel choice. But some objective information here:-

http://www.mikelucasyachting.co.uk/sadler-starlight-boats/articles/keel-choice.pdf

I have a twin keel Sadler 29 and I have no problems with the windward performance. But occasionally the root of the windward keel breaks the surface and casuses some slamming when hard pressed. Wind strength and particularly sea state have much more effect on upwind speed than type of keel in the Sadlers. Lightweight Beneteau 21 and 24 footers sail away from me in a F3 or less but once we get into a F4 or F5, particularly to windward, I leave them for dead. So a 30 foot Beneteau would be an interesting comparision. Interestingly one of our club members has just bought a First 30 but I haven't had a chance to sail against him yet.

Andre Mauric. 1979 First 30 designer.
Jean Berret. 19883 First 32 designer.

Different boats.

Of course, the NEW First 30 is a whizz bang soap dish with no accomodation.....

 

[cliff]

I have raced several times against a deep fin 34 in our shallow fin version. He is a keen racer. We outpoint him by a good 5 degrees, probably to do with sail condition. The only time I feel we could benefit from a deep fin is in the typical square waves of the Med, where I feel our leeway is excessive. In most conditions I doubt very much that anyone could tell the difference.

+1 - I have a shallow fin version and, like you, have found I could out point a deep fin version and for some obscure reason did not heel as much as the deep fin version in the same conditions - oh yes the owner of the deep fin version was a keen racer and was a little upset as we sailed past him having a leisurely cuppa. To be honest I was having a good day and he just could not catch it right so in all probability I would agree there is SFA difference under "normal" conditions apart from I can get closer to the shore or over the bar when a deep fin version would run aground.

 

[snooks]

All things being equal the deep keel will out point a shallow keel. YM did a comparison on a Sadler 32, great boats by the way , with a feel fin, shallow fin, centerboard and twin keels. Deep fin out pointed all, off the wind the centre board was fastest, on all other points of sail it was much of a muchness.

If a shallow keel is out pointing a deep fin there are a number of factors which could contribute to your performance and detract from theirs, everything from condition of sails to growth on the hull, to the nut on the end of the tiller.

In my Sadler 32 I've out sailed a 38ft Jeanneu to windward up the Kyles of Bute. The conditions for us were perfect for the Sadler, no waves, 18-20 knots apparent, we were able to keep full sail up, they were reefed. Our sails were new theirs weren't, our hull was spotless etc. So what conclusion can I draw from that? None, off the wind they had full sail and beat us, actually on every other point of sail they were faster, but we nailed them to windward

 

[snooks]

But the Contessa is a much more attractive boat... Versus the Sadler looks like its been hit by the ugly stick big time... ( Sorry Snooks!)

The Contessa is a beautiful boat, but I really don't see how you think a Sadler 32 is "ugly"

Is this really an ugly boat ?!?

Remind me again of the jelly mold you sail...and have you had your eyes tested recently?

Hit with by the ugly stick indeed, I'll hit you with the blooming ugly stick

 

[FullCircle]

Man that's ugly, and Gentlemen don't sail to windward.

What make of stick have you got?

 

[john_morris_uk]

See, if I was thinking about a Sadler 32 I would also put the Contessa 32 on the list... Accomodation wise their ain't much in it... But the Contessa is a much more attractive boat...

Firstly I used to LOVE Contessa 32's until I lived and sailed on one. They really are very cramped below and although they look very pretty and sail very well they are wet compared to some of the other designs. (The little sister Contessaa 26 is described as going to windward like a submarine.) The 32 isn't so bad but you are giving up a lot of accommodation for the look of the boat...

 

[photodog]

The Contessa is a beautiful boat, but I really don't see how you think a Sadler 32 is "ugly"

Is this really an ugly boat ?!?

Remind me again of the jelly mold you sail...and have you had your eyes tested recently?

Hit with by the ugly stick indeed, I'll hit you with the blooming ugly stick

Well, I think they look a bit dumpy... Too much beam midships for the LOA... And the tiny windows forward lead to even more imbalance...

I think they look like they are working to hard to make progress..

Versus the 34...

Which looks a lot more balanced...

Now, we lose out in the windows thing as well fwd.... But I have to say i think we look a bit better balanced... Certainly no worse!

Anyways... It's in the eye of the beholder....

She does look purposefull mind.....

 

[sailorman]

Well, I think they look a bit dumpy... Too much beam midships for the LOA... And the tiny windows forward lead to even more imbalance...

I think they look like they are working to hard to make progress..

Versus the 34...

Which looks a lot more balanced...

Now, we lose out in the windows thing as well fwd.... But I have to say i think we look a bit better balanced... Certainly no worse!

Anyways... It's in the eye of the beholder....

She does look purposefull mind.....

at least the top 1 is sailing

 

[photodog]

at least the top 3 are sailing

If you could take a decent picture I would have one of me as well....


But I am not claiming to have anything less dumpy...

And as long as Snooks loves her, then that's all that matters!

 

[biscuit]

Back to the question: I have had a First 32: Pros: Fast, easy to sail, well balanced, very strong lay up, good layout below and in cockpit, excellent huge cockpit locker. Smallish aft cabin.
Cons : Biggish genoa: foam backed headlining may droop, compartmentalized shallow bilges a pain if any water gets in. Darkish heads. Isomat spars obsolete, spares from Rig-rite USA expensive. Hull gel coat cream colour difficult to match when repairing.
I have sailed a S34 (excellent) but not a S 32, so can't help there. Overall, I thought the F32 was super, and later regretted selling it..

 

[BAtoo]

If you can find a First 325, that will be the one to have.

I've had an S32 - nice boat but pokey compared with the Firsts and now quite long in the tooth. The 325 is much better than the F32 & would be my choice of that vintage but they are hard to find.
The Firsts will out sail the S32 in most conditions - especially those in which most families happily sail.