Beneteau Oceanis 320

[Guest]

Thanks Hugh & Paul for your replies, most informative. I have now read the MAIB report and can only conclude the fault lay with the skipper and crew. I experienced similar winds and sea states during my 47 day crossing (and an unusually high % of calms) during which all my steering was done by my Autohelm 2000 on maximum sea state setting and in spite of cross seas coming in at 30-40 angles of the stern trying to knock me sideways I had no problems. There were only 4-5 times I did worry and that was when an extra large wave would pick me up and carry me till my rudder broke clear then she would spin 90-120 degrees, but once the rudder bit again she would come back round nice and quick........Brown pants the first time tho'

 

[Guest]

But the boat was to blame?

While you are right that a lightweight yacht can be sailed in bad conditions, a good yacht would have looked after a weak crew.

As I read it, the MAIB report criticised the skipper's failure to understand the implications of the yacht's stability curve - which the press at the time interpreted as saying the boat wasn't stable enough given the circumstances. After all, you could blame the Jumblies for going to sea in a sieve - and that's true, but it doesn't make a sieve seaworthy.

After the MAIB investigation, the RYA modified their Coastal Skipper course to include a bit on understanding yacht stability.

 

[Guest]

the boat was not to blame?

I think, if you look at any boat, 100% stability is not achivable, from long keelers down. The important factor is selfrighting abilities which the boat proved she had in the first instance. It was stated after the first roll the washboards were lost, the life raft inflated and a crew member was lost. The liferaft inflating points to poor sealing, maintainance/stowage, washboards to bad management in the prevailing conditions and the loss of a crewmember possibly through carelessness. he is claimed to have been wearing both harness and lifejacket yet the Captain, in his evidence, was wearing niether in spite of taking the helm an hour before the second knockdown.The drag generated by an inflated liferaft would undoubtably have affected the self righting ability but she did self right. The Captain and remaining crew then climbed into the liferaft to secure it, a strange manouvere, if you are familiar with liferafts. A simpler and safer method would have been to secure a long line to the painter and casting it overboard leaving them free to assist the MOB. In to many cases boats are blamed for loss of life in bad conditions when in reality it boils down to lethally poor seamanship and training and a failure to appreciate the true power of the sea. To many so called Yachtmasters obtain their tickets after a few weeks of theory and a handfull of seamiles under their belt then swagger out thinking they are ready to equal the likes of Motessier and Slocum, they were seamen first and foremost. I myself have been going to sea since '64' and consider myself to still be a big enough beginner not to have left La Coruna in the prevailing conditions. That the Skipper did only serves to highlight his incompetence and inexperience of the conditions that prevail in the Biscay. Once again, the fault did not lie with the boat.

 

[Guest]

Re: the boat was not to blame?

As the Fastnet Report showed, almost any boat will right itself given enough time. That doesn't mean that stability is not important, and the same report emphasised how important it is. Unfortunately that message has been lost and the typical modern cruising yacht doesn't look very different from designs which were then considered extreme like the OOD 34.

Angles of vanishing stability of 125 degrees are not uncommon. With gear added to the mast etc. that angle will be further reduced. With a yacht on its side with its mast touching the water such a yacht is already very close to that figure and it can't take a very big wave or gust of wind to tip it further.

By the way, it would be interesting to know why the life raft inflated. Did it have a hydrostatic release that was activated? I have always wondered whether hydrostatic releases are dangerous for this reason.

And why should the inflated liferaft create drag to stop the yacht self-righting?

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: the boat was not to blame?

I agree with you about the modern designs. It surprises me that YM new boat reports never comment on the stability curve, even though some recent ones have looked surprisingly poor. If I was compiling the "good and bad" tick boxes I would be including stability as a matter of course. And I see that the Contessa 32 reference curve has disappeared recently - is this at the request of the manufacturers?

 

[Guest]

Re: the boat was not to blame?

Yes, I noticed that the Contessa 32 comparison line had slipped out recently and had also wondered whether there was anything behind it!

I suspect that the truth is less sinister - it's just that modern stability curves are all so bad by comparison that purchasers would rather not be reminded about stability.

 

[markup]

Oceanis 320

Hi

Would anyone have the rigging rope lengths for a Benetau Oceanis 320 1988

Please

Regards

Mark

 

[Tranona]

Twice the mast height plus the length back to the cockpit if taken there plus 1m. Probably around 30m.

 

[FullCircle]

Of course it depends.

Have you single line reefing, and 3 reefs?
My 3rd reef is 36m long on a Jeanneau 35, so yours would be around 33m I suspect.

 

[saltylegs]

A bit of head scratching going on at my end, is this a 10 year old post that has been "reborn" and if so it it missing the start or am I missing the point

 

[30boat]

Thanks Hugh & Paul for your replies, most informative. I have now read the MAIB report and can only conclude the fault lay with the skipper and crew. I experienced similar winds and sea states during my 47 day crossing (and an unusually high % of calms) during which all my steering was done by my Autohelm 2000 on maximum sea state setting and in spite of cross seas coming in at 30-40 angles of the stern trying to knock me sideways I had no problems. There were only 4-5 times I did worry and that was when an extra large wave would pick me up and carry me till my rudder broke clear then she would spin 90-120 degrees, but once the rudder bit again she would come back round nice and quick........Brown pants the first time tho'

Is there a link to the report?

 

[Tranona]

This is a well known (and now very old) report. It is on the MAIB site - in the archives.

 

[30boat]

This is a well known (and now very old) report. It is on the MAIB site - in the archives.

Do you know the name of the yacht?

 

[Tranona]

The boat was Ocean Madam and the report was among the first on a leisure craft. Published in 1999 (accident was in 1997) and can be found on the MAIB site which you can search by year - just Google MAIB reports.

 

[30boat]

The boat was Ocean Madam and the report was among the first on a leisure craft. Published in 1999 (accident was in 1997) and can be found on the MAIB site which you can search by year - just Google MAIB reports.

Oh I've read that one,thanks.I thought there was another report about a 320.That's why I couldn't find it.

 

[Skysail]

I do believe Ocean Madam was a Beneteau 390?

 

[Tranona]

Oh I've read that one,thanks.I thought there was another report about a 320.That's why I couldn't find it.

The original post is over 10 years ago! and it was about the well known 390.

 

[Spyro]

A bit of head scratching going on at my end, is this a 10 year old post that has been "reborn" and if so it it missing the start or am I missing the point

It's a 10 year old post that has been jumped on by Markup. It's understandable as he is a new user

Markup, you'd be better starting a new post in reader to reader if you're after any info about your boat.

 

[paddy01]

Well it's a [not so] small world.

I'm a long time lurker having found the site whilst refreshing my boating knowledge after a friend buying his first boat asked me to more or less competent crew for him. If you can do as much in a motor boat but it takes all sorts!

Was just browsing tonight and came across this thread.

Ocean Madam was an Oceanis 390, the boat on which I did my first and only channel crossing. We chartered her out of Dartmouth in or around 1992, put in at St Peter Port after a spell of rough weather and spent the week bay hopping the French coast.

Quite an introduction to cruising for a 16 year old with only dinghy sailing experience !

Whilst I would have always imagined I'd read such reports in a fairly detached manner, it definitely puts a different colour on it when the boat has personal attachements.

Oh er, hello from Devon by the way.

Paddy