Beneteau MC6

[benjenbav]

I have to say that I nearly threw the magazine review straight into the recycling when I read the words "exemplary helm" and looked at the accompanying picture which showed the usual ghastly arrangement of bits dragged out of the parts bin which would have lowered the tone of an Austin Allegro. :encouragement:

 

[Nick_H]

Looking at the spec for a P60 at the moment - think more like £1.6 million inc vat

Wow, that's crazy. The P60 is basically the successor to the successor to my boat, identical beam and the extra length being mostly the extended swim platform. If I look at what the first owner of mine paid in 2004, and use a web calculator to add RPI inflation, the number is still comfortably in six figures inc VAT.

I wonder how much of the premium over the MC6 is down to the drive system though. I know fitting shafts is labour intensive, and they require more set up, but I'd have thought the boat builders are pretty slick at that now and anyway some of it should be offset by the cost of the pod drive. There's an argument that you also need to fit bigger engines on a shaft drive boat to get the same performance, but that doesn't seem to be the case in the comparison between the P60 and MC6, where I'd guess the similar fuel consumption means the engines have to do the same amount of work to move at the same speed, so you could have similar modest performance on a P60 with 600 hp engines. This adds up to me, as I get 30 knots max on a similar hull with 715 hp each side, so 27 kts with 600 hp on shafts sounds quite reasonable.

I suspect cost isn't the biggest driver for choosing pods, but rather the showroom appeal of the joystick and bigger cabins, and I still think that Beneteau maybe expected better performance than they've achieved in practice.

 

[admillington]

Wow, that's crazy. The P60 is basically the successor to the successor to my boat, identical beam and the extra length being mostly the extended swim platform. If I look at what the first owner of mine paid in 2004, and use a web calculator to add RPI inflation, the number is still comfortably in six figures inc VAT.

I wonder how much of the premium over the MC6 is down to the drive system though. I know fitting shafts is labour intensive, and they require more set up, but I'd have thought the boat builders are pretty slick at that now and anyway some of it should be offset by the cost of the pod drive. There's an argument that you also need to fit bigger engines on a shaft drive boat to get the same performance, but that doesn't seem to be the case in the comparison between the P60 and MC6, where I'd guess the similar fuel consumption means the engines have to do the same amount of work to move at the same speed, so you could have similar modest performance on a P60 with 600 hp engines. This adds up to me, as I get 30 knots max on a similar hull with 715 hp each side, so 27 kts with 600 hp on shafts sounds quite reasonable.

I suspect cost isn't the biggest driver for choosing pods, but rather the showroom appeal of the joystick and bigger cabins, and I still think that Beneteau maybe expected better performance than they've achieved in practice.

I think that boat prices are being driven by the investors requirement for a larger return rather than the cost difference between PODs and Shafts and the M6 has the advantage of a big boat company backing them.

 

[Nigelpickin]

I think that theres around a 5k kg weight differential between the two boats...combination of block weight, hull and general fittings. I'm not sure that the 600hp engines would get the P60 very far....

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I think that boat prices are being driven by the investors requirement for a larger return rather than the cost difference between PODs and Shafts and the M6 has the advantage of a big boat company backing them.

Yup the difference between the MC6 at £700k inc VAT and the P60 at £1.6m inc VAT cannot solely be down to the drive system! But on the other hand what we don't know is how much discount Princess and Beneteau are willing to throw at a prospective buyer. Maybe Beneteau's prices are firm but Princess offer a 20% discount almost as a matter of course. Maybe also the Brit builders have been caught on the hop by the recent rise in Sterling against the Euro in that they've price listed their boats against the Euro competition based on a significantly lower exchange rate comparison. The investors may well be demanding a better return on their investment but if Princess sell fewer boats due to price hikes, then hiking the prices is self defeating

I must admit though that a £1.6m price tag for a 60 footer sounds very ambitious. Does that price include a lot of options?

 

[Nick_H]

I think that theres around a 5k kg weight differential between the two boats...combination of block weight, hull and general fittings. I'm not sure that the 600hp engines would get the P60 very far....

Why do you say that? The figures suggest that the P60 with shafts needs the same amount of energy (ie. litres of fuel) to move it one mile at 23 knots as the MC6 does with pods, assuming there's no inherent difference in efficiency between the VP and Cummins engines. I agree that 600hp would be a bit borderline on the P60, but I think it will be on the MC6 as well, which is where I started this thread.

 

[Nigelpickin]

Why do you say that? The figures suggest that the P60 with shafts needs the same amount of energy (ie. litres of fuel) to move it one mile at 23 knots as the MC6 does with pods, assuming there's no inherent difference in efficiency between the VP and Cummins engines. I agree that 600hp would be a bit borderline on the P60, but I think it will be on the MC6 as well, which is where I started this thread.

I think that the P60 just weighs too much for 600hp engines.
Mark's boat is around 18k kg, the MC6 around 20k kg. Marks will whizz around nicely and I would suggest that the drive/engine are set up perfectly for this boat. That being the case, with one engine option only, the MC6 will be a bit laboured, esp with a hard top and so on. It will work but be perhaps a little underwhelming.
I don't understand the physics but surely adding another 5k kg to the starting weight would make things impossible? Either in terms of getting things up and over or using the vectoring system, the Princess would just be too heavy for these engines or any other set up at 600hp.

I'm convinced that PODs, set up correctly and balanced in terms of weigh distribution, are at least on par with 'traditional' shaft/v drive systems. However what we have heard re the Princess 43, (15k kg boat), it that the 435hp Volvo set up, same as mine and a similar weight, is just not up to the job.

So I think that I'm agreeing with you MC6 will not be a seat of the pants experience.

When the set up is right there will be some benefit in terms of burn rate and experience but when the boat is at the top end in terms of size weight , as is the case with the MC6 any advantage is lost. But, the punter will still be turned on by the cost/joystick/accommodation benefit that the set up affords, they won't see that MC are trying to squeeze absolutely everything out of that solution to achieve those usp's; which is what Beneteau is all about.