Beneteau First vs Oceanis - what are the differences?

[BAtoo]

If you are off to the Med then look carefully at the ventialtion - number of opening windows/hatches - as that, I'm told, is pretty important to keep you cool. I think you will find the Oceanis (& Jeanneau Sun Oddesey) more endowed with those.

Over here we seem to need fewer opening to keep the bl&&dy rain out

 

[waterbird]

Very True

If you are off to the Med then look carefully at the ventialtion - number of opening windows/hatches - as that, I'm told, is pretty important to keep you cool. I think you will find the Oceanis (& Jeanneau Sun Oddesey) more endowed with those.

Over here we seem to need fewer opening to keep the bl&&dy rain out

Hiya BAtoo,

LOL Good ole Blighty and you still have a drought? It is one crazy Country, one of the reasons we left although Normandy has its fair share. That is a very good point regarding the Oceanis and Sun Oddesey and yes most of our Sailing will be Med based initially. Keeping cool is certainly a factor , not sure if the 'First's have Air con. Ok a compromise if more than enough ventilation windows, hoping that would be Ok. Any one have experience of a First in hot climates?

Thank you very much for your input, I am still smiling at your ' Keep the bl&&dy rain out ' memories of home.

Waterbird

 

[RupertW]

Hiya BAtoo,

LOL Good ole Blighty and you still have a drought? It is one crazy Country, one of the reasons we left although Normandy has its fair share. That is a very good point regarding the Oceanis and Sun Oddesey and yes most of our Sailing will be Med based initially. Keeping cool is certainly a factor , not sure if the 'First's have Air con. Ok a compromise if more than enough ventilation windows, hoping that would be Ok. Any one have experience of a First in hot climates?

Thank you very much for your input, I am still smiling at your ' Keep the bl&&dy rain out ' memories of home.

Waterbird

We've owned a First but currently have Sun Odyssey in the Med. I really wouldn't think too much about air-con unless you want to be tied to your electrical needs. In hot climates lots of hatches for ventilation and minimal loose clothing is the way. The sea is always there to cool down a few times a day.

 

[Judders]

I am so pleased to see so much enthusiasm for both models, I am sure either is a fantastic Boat, so be very proud, I would be with either one

I think the apparent whitewash of enthusiasm has more to do with the fact that those of us who descent against the qualities of Benneteau (as well as Bavaria and Jeanneau) just cant be bothered with the torrent of abuse that comes with discussing the short comings of them.

It is wonderful to hear from those who have had experience of the two Models, it is greatly appreciated . The Bavaria's are nice Boats all the same but our preference is as above.

Waterbird

I've sailed half a dozen Firsts and one Oceanis and the truth is that they have varried greatly. By the time you are buying second hand the spec will be unique in most cases, so things like air-con may well have been added either way. It's rather more likely that a Oceanis will have it but its by no means banned from Firsts.

One thing that is very noticable on Bennys is that the standard steering gear is poor where as the upgrade option is pretty good. If you really want to feel connected to the boat when you sail, look for this option.

That said, there are plenty of other builders you probably ought to be looking at as well but it depends on the size you want and budget.

 

[waterbird]

Thank you.

I've sailed half a dozen Firsts and one Oceanis and the truth is that they have varried greatly. By the time you are buying second hand the spec will be unique in most cases, so things like air-con may well have been added either way. It's rather more likely that a Oceanis will have it but its by no means banned from Firsts.

One thing that is very noticable on Bennys is that the standard steering gear is poor where as the upgrade option is pretty good. If you really want to feel connected to the boat when you sail, look for this option.

That said, there are plenty of other builders you probably ought to be looking at as well but it depends on the size you want and budget.

Thank you so much, yes I agree in hot climates there is always the cool Sea for a nice swim or Dive . Thank you Judders for your input on the Beneteau's they certainly have a great reputation so looking for what you mention is worth noting

We have noted an Ocean Star too, which looks wonderful and comparable but probably closer to the Oceanis, rather nippy as a Cruiser apparently. We have seen a small number of 'First' 47.7's in our budget range along with Oceanis too, as well as the Ocean star 51.

Gosh it is rather difficult and until we go see them in the flesh, try them out and eventually have a survey done then who knows. It is brilliant hearing from those who have had experience on the First's as well as Oceanis and the Jeanneau's Sun's, all fantastic boat's. The Jeanneau's again having a very fine repertoire, I can see why people choose them.

In regards to investment we do want a Boat that will retain value, with thorough Maintenance of course I believe all will do that comfortably. We personally have a bit of experience, myself a Fibre glassing course along with an outboard and Diesel engine maintenance course many moons ago during my University days.

We hope to pick out a lot when looking up close ourselves. Lou is an ex Helicopter Engineer, she used to maintain her Dive club Boats too, so hopefully the scamming Salesman or Woman won't try to blind us too much lol.

The survey will tell all mind you.

It is a tough one but all of the above are fantastic Boats, we are just a little taken with the versatility of the ' First ' for all round thrills and spills in regards all of our dreams and aspirations

You are all so kind.

Waterbird

 

[cmedsailor]

The Oceanis range is built for gentlemen with discerning taste, you should know that, simples

Of course I do!!

 

[waterbird]

I bet you do

Of course I do!!

They are gorgeous Boats, seeing as we like a bit of Scuba the Oceanis Transom and access looks great. How do those of you cope with the First in regards to access when enjoying a Bay or two? Sure a ladder etc can be used but the flap down platform may not be quite as user friendly as the Oceanis.

The older Oceanis share the Hull of the Firsts and it is an older early 00's Boat we are looking for ..... grrrrrrrr so, so difficult. Blue Water work sounds comparable too with both performing well, the First a pace setter and numerous accolades to her credit, can we Dive and Swim off her as comfortably I wonder.

Waterbird

 

[Tranona]

If you want to swim regularly off the back then a sugar scoop and platform is ideal - and most boats that you will be looking at will have that feature as it is ideal for Med sailing - not just the swimming but for access to the quayside as many moorings are stern in. You usually get a shower and on some boat storage lockers there as well for your swimming gear. More recent boats have moved away from that style and tend to use drop down transoms as they have moved cockpits aft to get more cabin space for given length. Perhaps not such a good idea as far as stern to mooring is concerned.

 

[waterbird]

Sugar scoops on Oceanis a Plus

Dear Tranona,

Thank you so much for that. I have done a bit of reading, to be honest for safety in regards to Man overboard, Swimming, Diving, Mooring and access on and off the Tender, the Sugar scoop has it's advantages I am very safety conscious being an ex Life guard hence my thoughts when looking and weighing up possible scenarios and situations regarding our Boat of choice.

The older ' First ' has the flap down method and this is where in my view a compromise on the Speed of the Yacht to safety is changing slightly. The Oceanis has what looks to be great access in all these regards and if the hull is the same as the thoroughbred First in the years we are looking then for all round safety and ease of access the Oceanis may clinch it.

One thing that is seeming to be an issue is the noise of a mild sea lapping Waves on the flat of the Scoop on some Yachts when sleeping in the Aft cabins. This is not an issue on all yachts of course. Can any of the Oceanis owners comment?

We are considering the Oceanis and the First 47.7 and doing our best, researching, reading all the Manufacturers blurb, reading numerous reviews, youtube vid's the works as well as net based. When doing this there is always a Bias or in some cases a paid for motive as with anything. That's why hearing from experienced people and owners themselves is worth more to us than Gold

Many Thanks everyone.

Waterbird

 

[Monique]

Hello Waterbird,

FWIW, I too had my eyes set on a First 47.7... but settled for my older Bav 46.

Here are some of the reasons:

- The F47.7 has a deeper keel than the 2.2 meters on Pegasus. Add a wavy anchorage and you have to move further out which often will reduce your shelter to nothing.
- The tall rig normally has a hanked on sail (never saw one with a furling mainsail). When you winch up that amount of canvas, you better have a gorilla as a mate. I am part gorilla but would not do it thinking its fun... or easy.
- It is wider than the Bavaria which at 4.20meters is no slim Jim. Think mooring fees here; most marinas quit at 4.2 meter before they bump you up in berth size.
- It is unlikely you will find one with a genset, a water maker, AC or heating. Does not fit within the "racing" thinking.
- Expect minimum battery capacity for weight reasons
- The F47.7 has rod rigging good but expensive when comes the replacement time. The Bav has wire (12mm mind you)
- I sail mostly with my 50kg GF.... so a F47.7 will only ever be a dream.
- If you sail with a small crew, you will be exhausted in no time.

Maybe I could get a few more 50 kg GF"S???? they should count for a gorilla eventually

GL

 

[waterbird]

Some very good points there

Dear GL and Monique,

You have some very good points there The First is a dream Boat and an ultimate choice especially from a Speed and handling perspective but looking at it from various angles, weighing up the pro's and cons an Oceanis may win us over. Safety, ease of access, Galley (important to me as intend some lovely Fish suppers) , short handed sailing, ease of working the Boat etc etc

As for sailing it gosh, most of the time it will be me, Lou and her brother Angus, we may not be up to your ' Gorilla' status but we like to keep fit lol, maybe sailing the First will be a continual Workout lol. Your GF must be tiny, I thought I was slim , Lou too, she's like a pencil, I and we need a crash diet to make the 50kg cut though, maybe we are taller lol. The good thing about the Oceanis, your Bavaria and the Ocean Star even is that they can be sailed short handed and even Single handed.

Maybe occasionally I'll need the solitude with my trusty Hound by my side bless him, so again good points on the Crew numbers needed.

There is probably a way of doing this with the First no doubt too, especially the new models as they seem to be more Cruiser'ish (new word ). The Furling system is great and ingenious, the winches on the Oceanis in the cockpit making easy work too.

The deeper Keels do concern us though especially when Med sailing, greater grounding risks, especially as we plan to do the Greek island's and Balearics some time, we do love our Music though for Blue water may be views will differ.

I bet your Bavaria is lovely and can see why you made your choice

Thank you

Waterbird

 

[Judders]

Is this going to be your first boat?

Thank you Judders for your input on the Beneteau's they certainly have a great reputation so looking for what you mention is worth noting

I don't think Benneteau really do have a great reputation so much as a great following, which is somewhat different. People within the industry who know their onions refer to them as Bendy Toys and it's not an entirely unfair title. They're built to a price point and there's nothing wrong in that.

The following that Benneteau have built so successfully is the fruit of a long term aggressive strategy to ensure that new to ownership people will always be familiar with the product. They're very good at practically giving boats away to the right people and they can suply the huge volumes required throughout the boom years by the charter compannies, so if you come into sailing that way, the chances are you'll be familiar with Bennys or Jeanneaus.

The Yachting press have always really let their readers down when reviewing boats from the volume producers with the big advertising budgets. I have often read an article where the same author who finds a disadvantage to be significant on one model will accept it as a minor foible on a Benneteau. Shortly before I packed in my YM subscription a few years ago there was a review of a new smaller Oceanis where the narrative was quite scathing but the summary managed a comlete one eighty and praised it to the hilt. Privately it is not denied that this is related to the advertising spend.

The final factor is the voice of the owners on open forums (what is the plural of forum again?) such as this. Whenever anyone offers any criticsim, or even query of the BenJenBav boats, a flurry of owners, presumably blinded by their loyalty spring to the (often most irrational) defence and leap upon even the most reasoned and balanced observations as an attack on AWBs by people who can't afford them. It's *******s, but it does tend to stifle debate because frankly, most of us can't be bothered with it.

All that said, Benneteau have built some lovely boats down the years (and some bloddy awful ones). The 42s7 Jubilie remains one of my all time favourites and, against all my instincts, I was very impressed with the sailing qualities of the new Oceanis 50 which I raced in conditions gusting up to an F8 last year. (For balance though, the new First 40 remains the most disappointing boat I have sailed in many a long while).

Gosh it is rather difficult and until we go see them in the flesh, try them out...

Absobloominglutely.

They are gorgeous Boats, seeing as we like a bit of Scuba the Oceanis Transom and access looks great. How do those of you cope with the First in regards to access when enjoying a Bay or two?

All the new Firsts have broad open transoms.

One thing that is seeming to be an issue is the noise of a mild sea lapping Waves on the flat of the Scoop on some Yachts when sleeping in the Aft cabins. This is not an issue on all yachts of course. Can any of the Oceanis owners comment

Oh that is a good point. I've had some awful nights sleep on boats down the years, but probably none worse than on the Oceanis last year due to the slapping which shook the whole boat. In fairness, we were anchored somewhere we probably shouldnt have been but I found it odd that a oat should slap at anchor and that the slapping, often just a problem in the aft cabin on modern boats, shook the whole boat and pinged through the rig.

 

[Tranona]

It's *******s, but it does tend to stifle debate because frankly, most of us can't be bothered with it.

Doesn't seem to stop you from voicing your opinions at every opportunity - and usually belittling those of others at the same time.

Your freedom to voice your opinion is the same as anyone elses, and has no more or less value.

 

[Judders]

It does actually old fruit.

But let's not hijack a perfectly good threa eh?

 

[Tranona]

It does actually old fruit.

But let's not hijack a perfectly good threa eh?

Not hijacking it at all. Just that you make some assumptions about why people buy boats which are not necessarily correct, and difficult to see how they can be of use to the OP.

You seem to assume that people who buy these boats are naive and are being hoodwinked by the builders. If, as you suggest they failed to meet the buyers' expectations, why are so many bought?

If you "can't be bothered" to recognise other peoples' opinions then don't "bother" at all.

 

[Judders]

If you "can't be bothered" to recognise other peoples' opinions then don't "bother" at all.

I am not hijacking this or any other thread so that you can get into a row about your own paranoia.

 

[Tranona]

I am not hijacking this or any other thread so that you can get into a row about your own paranoia.

Then why are you doing it?

You that seems to have the paranoia (if there is any)

 

[Monique]

HEY YOU TWO.... STOP BICKERING LIKE CHILDREN!!!

 

[Monique]

Waterbird,

If a first 47.7 is still your choice...

Get more house batteries, a genset and electric/Hydraulic winches.

From your own description, you will not have enough "meat" on deck to enjoy cruising in this gorgeous vessel.

Good luck.

 

[waterbird]

It's me who Hijacked a very old 07 Thread

It is a shame to see some Bickering but hey it is one of those threads and I value all input good and bad . As for the Thread well it was a very old one that wasn't going anywhere and one that is important to me as looking at the two models.

Is it going to be my first Boat? - My first Big serious personal Boat yes second after a small sailing dinghy as a child. My uncle had two Yachts, my father part share and many friends have had Boats. In my subject area profession, life involved jumping in and out of numerous Boats, mainly outboard based.

It has been a life long ambition to own my own Boat and to Cruise the Med, eventually the Atlantic and see some more of the world . I adore Wildlife, love Art and life has involved the Sea at every turn . The costs of Motor Cruising is now days well out of reach for most of us, fuel prices and pollution are big factors for me.

To be honest I have had the most fun when on the water under the power of the Wind, the sound of the Water, the speed, Oceanic life. The joy of trimming the Sail, the smile from side to side of one's face as your effort Sprints into action. As a child I used to spend hours in Boat yards I can hear the rigging tapping on masts now as I think back, back then always dreaming of that day when yes one will be mine .

As for Boats, wow the First is a thoroughbred, tried tested and proven in Race circles but can a short handed crew of mainly girls handle a 47.7 beauty ? I am sure they could be set up to be Sailed single handed mind you. The 473 Oceanis however is one model we are looking at favourably now due to weighing things up further in regards to our use.

The name Bendy Toys I have noted frequently when trawling for information but even those that use the term speak highly about them. Huge budget Advertising campaigns by manufacturers are a fact of todays power play world unfortunately. Biased and unbiased experienced view points by those unassociated with the Brands from a Marketing perspective are valuable to people like lil ole me .

We still have time on our side, it will not be a rushed decision but hopefully a very informed and Wise decision when all is said and done. I am hoping by bringing life back into this old Thread that it will help others considering the Beneteau's too

Votre tres gentil as we say here.

Thank you

Waterbird