Beneteau First lost her keel, four good men lost at sea.

[haydude]

I believe it is now clear to everyone what happened. In those conditions it is likely that a total keel failure would have taken me by surprise. After all we are all confident in our AWBs. But can we now continue trust them?

My thoughts are with those brave sailors and their families.

 

[MoodySabre]

Jumping to conclusions aren't you? We don't know that it was keel failure. The keel hadn't broken but had come right off and the hull was holed in the process. Perhaps a container ripped it off. Perhaps a container would rip my keel off. Who knows. It doesn't make Benes any more unsafe than other AWBs.

 

[haydude]

If it where a container there would be scratches on the bow. It is clear to me that the keel to hull joint failed causing the loss of the keel. This is poor manufacturing or poor design. Not fit for purpose. You can see the hull fiber was peeled off like an onion skin.

 

[bedouin]

If it where a container there would be scratches on the bow. It is clear to me that the keel to hull joint failed causing the loss of the keel. This is poor manufacturing or poor design. Not fit for purpose. You can see the hull fiber was peeled off like an onion skin.

Beneteaux have sailed millions of miles and not got a reputation for problems with their keels. It is much more likely to have been caused by a collision at some earlier time that was not correctly investigated.

BTW I don't go with the "hit a container" theory as (a) the crew would probably have noticed at the time and (b) that would have caused immediate catastrophic failure

 

[SimbaDog]

If it where a container there would be scratches on the bow. It is clear to me that the keel to hull joint failed causing the loss of the keel. This is poor manufacturing or poor design. Not fit for purpose. You can see the hull fiber was peeled off like an onion skin.

You might like to consider editing your post? IMHO your comments could be considered defamatory!

Just my thoughts

 

[jordanbasset]

The number of deaths due to sailing yachts sinking is tiny, let alone those due to the more specific issue of failure of keels, AWB or MAB. You are far more likely to die of accidental causes in your own home, walking, riding or being in a car. Does not mean there are no issues to be addressed but a sense of perspective is required.

 

[E39mad]

If it where a container there would be scratches on the bow. It is clear to me that the keel to hull joint failed causing the loss of the keel. This is poor manufacturing or poor design. Not fit for purpose. You can see the hull fiber was peeled off like an onion skin.

How do you know it was poor manufacturing or design. The 40.7 is a fairly old boat now and we do not know about this particular yachts history, whether it has been heavily grounded in the past etc etc

I used to race Beneteaus hard in shore and offshore and never ever worried about keel design integrity.

Imho your comment is an opinion without any shred of evidence

 

[Rigger Mortice]

If it where a container there would be scratches on the bow. It is clear to me that the keel to hull joint failed causing the loss of the keel. This is poor manufacturing or poor design. Not fit for purpose. You can see the hull fiber was peeled off like an onion skin.

Rubbish.
A container doesn't necessarily lie level in the water; it is actually very unlikely to. It would be perfectly possible for a keel to hit a container a few feet below the surface leaving no mark on the hull.

 

[haydude]

How do you know it was poor manufacturing or design. The 40.7 is a fairly old boat now and we do not know about this particular yachts history, whether it has been heavily grounded in the past etc etc

I used to race Beneteaus hard in shore and offshore and never ever worried about keel design integrity.

Imho your comment is an opinion without any shred of evidence

Indeed it is an opinion, and you can tell me that Beneteu First are well designed and robust and whatever, but a yacht is not supposed to loose her keel light that even if it hits something! Come on! I believe that manufacturers have gone too far in cost savings against safety.

 

[Vara]

I really dislike threads like this, that come to damning conclusions based on very little real information.

No doubt in the fullness of time more real information will come to light.

My thoughts are with the family, friends and colleagues of the crew that died.

 

[Skylark]

If it where a container there would be scratches on the bow. It is clear to me that the keel to hull joint failed causing the loss of the keel. This is poor manufacturing or poor design. Not fit for purpose. You can see the hull fiber was peeled off like an onion skin.

I'm not normally draw into threads like this but this is in the worst possible taste.

It's been confirmed today that the liferaft is in place so the families and friends now face the reality that all hope is lost and that their loved ones have perished at sea.

I've no idea what academic and/or professional qualifications you hold or what additional information you have access to, but I sincerely hope that a lawyer reads your insensitive assertion and investigates the potential of defamation and libel.

If indeed you have seen first hand evidence and you are an expert witness then I question if you have breeched confidentiality and may have prejudiced any due process.

Please request to have the thread removed.

 

[E39mad]

Indeed it is an opinion, and you can tell me that Beneteu First are well designed and robust and whatever, but a yacht is not supposed to loose her keel light that even if it hits something! Come on! I believe that manufacturers have gone too far in cost savings against safety.

You sir are spouting utter tosh. We do do not know the facts that lead to the keel failure in this particular case. This design is not known for it's keel issues and similar designs have successfully crossed oceans in their THOUSANDS.

 

[haydude]

OK my assessment is pure fantasy and the yacht did not loose the keel because of poor manufacturing or design.

So why did her loose her keel then? Please give me an explanation that makes sense, because the loss of those good men to me it does not make sense! It should not have happened.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

OK my assessment is pure fantasy and the yacht did not loose the keel because of poor manufacturing or design.

So why did her loose her keel then? Please give me an explanation that makes sense, because the loss of those good men to me it does not make sense! It should not have happened.

Nobody here knows. i don't. You don't.

 

[Tranona]

OK my assessment is pure fantasy and the yacht did not loose the keel because of poor manufacturing or design.

So why did her loose her keel then? Please give me an explanation that makes sense, because the loss of those good men to me it does not make sense! It should not have happened.

Many other people will be asking exactly the same question as you. However they will want an answer based on an expert examination of the evidence, not some knee jerk reaction after seeing a photograph.

It is impossible to give any sensible explanation until that investigation is complete. There will be a full investigation by the MAIB in accordance with the law and the report made public.

 

[bedouin]

OK my assessment is pure fantasy and the yacht did not loose the keel because of poor manufacturing or design.

So why did her loose her keel then? Please give me an explanation that makes sense, because the loss of those good men to me it does not make sense! It should not have happened.

We will never know the details - but AFAIK in all cases where we do know, keel loss has been a result of a grounding previously that had not been fully investigated. It is not hard to imagine that a grounding, maybe a long time ago, had caused serious damage that was not identified. The yacht was sailing in bad (but not extreme) conditions and that will have placed additional strain on the keel, perhaps a bolt failed causing the water ingress and then the fixings failed totally.

There are enough 40.7s out there and they have covered enough miles, that if there were an inherent design issue we would have heard about it by now (e.g. like the Bavaria Match 38)

 

[dylanwinter]

speculation

I personally think that speculation is fine

it is the first draft of history

and where better to speculate than here

run a few theories around the houses


it seems to me the family will no doubt be thinking along the same lines if they are sailors themselves

I doubt very much that they will be reading this thread

I think that some of you guys think that this internet chat room - one of thousands devoted to sailing- is of more importance than it is

this is nothing more than a bit of bar room chat among a group of old sailors

and nothing wrong with that I reckon

as for some-one being successfully sued for a comment on here.... get a grip boys

D

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

Four good men lost at sea...

It is a very sad time for the entire sailing community, and an absolutely devastating time for their friends and family - my thoughts and wishes are with you.

Accidents can happen at sea, and an incident like this really brings home the fact that it could have happened to anyone of us. No doubt there will be a lengthy investigation and people will want answers. Many of the questions may never be answered, and the exact circumstances will remain a mystery.

We should perhaps all take comfort in the fact that the guys were lost doing something that they loved and had probably dreamed about for years before. No one undertakes a passage like this without understanding that there is some risk involved. I have no reason to doubt the professionalism of the skipper, the crew or the company that organised the trip. I am confident that they would have cared for each until the bitter end.

The sea is beautiful, inspiring, challenging and powerful. It brings us endless joy and tranquility, but it can also be very cruel... A sad farewell to four good men lost at sea!

Pete

 

[Bobc]

A few thoughts on this:-

1./ They called-in to Stormforce to say that they were taking-on water and were diverting to the Azores. Had they hit something, I'm sure they would have said.

2./ Had they hit something and then found water coming in, I think it's much more likely that they would have suspected the keel and sent out a mayday/set-off the Epirb, git the raft out etc.

To me it's clear that this was a mechanical failure, probably due to fatigue. Whether or not it was due to previous damage or not, is (and will remain) pure speculation because the keel and its bolts will never be seen again.

 

[single]

Rubbish.
A container doesn't necessarily lie level in the water; it is actually very unlikely to. It would be perfectly possible for a keel to hit a container a few feet below the surface leaving no mark on the hull.

+1
But i think BobC is probably right.