Beneteau First 45 ???

[savageseadog]

The race I was in the other day had two of these boats in it. It's the first time I've ever seen one close up and I had a chance to stroll round. It seemed to be a curious mix of luxury yachting and racer, for instance they have rod rigging, triple spreader rig and hydraulic adjustments. On the other hand they have teak decks and the one I saw had a giant LCD TV and tracking receiver dish and lots of other goodies presumably. In the end they didn't seem very fast for the size and gadget count, although I've no idea of the skipper/crew capabilities. Anyone know these boats or comment? Is this the way race yachting is going?

 

[flaming]

The race I was in the other day had two of these boats in it. It's the first time I've ever seen one close up and I had a chance to stroll round. It seemed to be a curious mix of luxury yachting and racer, for instance they have rod rigging, triple spreader rig and hydraulic adjustments. On the other hand they have teak decks and the one I saw had a giant LCD TV and tracking receiver dish and lots of other goodies presumably. In the end they didn't seem very fast for the size and gadget count, although I've no idea of the skipper/crew capabilities. Anyone know these boats or comment? Is this the way race yachting is going?

You're right it's an interesting mix.

As to whether this is the way racing is going.... The major racing rule is IRC, which has as one of it's core features the promotion of seaworthy offshore cruiser racers, and to encourage participation by making dual purpose yachts competitive. To do that it offers generous credits to "cruisy" features such as a comfortable interior and standing headroom. Hence the first 45 can be competitive - very in fact. Though I'd certainly expect that any owners of First 45s that are really serious about the racing wouldn't fit the TV or the teak deck...

For what it's worth I think IRC had it right in the last 10 years, but now there's clearly a disconnect in that there are a whole fleets of boats, especially in the Solent, which are cruiser racers but never cruise. But, certainly below the 40 foot mark, owning a boat that's better for racing - i.e. big cockpit, minimal interior, bit lighter etc also almost guarantees that you're not competitive....

 

[mixmaster]

I hear you Flaming but as a guy who has just received his fist IRC cert for our 15 year old boat I'm glad that IRC is the way it is. If it favoured the latest and greatest participation would shurely be lower. We're certainly a long way from making any sorts of excuses for why we're not near the top of the fleet but do you reckon that some of the very fast boats might attract "boy racer" types who are more likely to blame their boat rather than themselves? I also imagine that these boats are harder to sail to their potential.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

As to whether this is the way racing is going.... The major racing rule is IRC,

I wonder if that's true. I'd be willing to bet there are more boats racing PY and variants than IRC but I dont know how we could check. I suppose it depends what you mean by "major".

But, certainly below the 40 foot mark, owning a boat that's better for racing - i.e. big cockpit, minimal interior, bit lighter etc also almost guarantees that you're not competitive....

Interesting comment. So the allowances for a bit of weight, roller furling etc are a bit too generous?

Incidentally, where can I find out what the standard rig is on a boat? EG, does a First 31.7 rate with roller furling as standard or foiled sails? Question comes up because we have such a boat who is very fast on handicap ( way faster than others with similar handicaps) but is using exotic laminates in a foil on the standard rating.

 

[savageseadog]

You're right it's an interesting mix.

As to whether this is the way racing is going.... The major racing rule is IRC, which has as one of it's core features the promotion of seaworthy offshore cruiser racers, and to encourage participation by making dual purpose yachts competitive. To do that it offers generous credits to "cruisy" features such as a comfortable interior and standing headroom. Hence the first 45 can be competitive - very in fact. Though I'd certainly expect that any owners of First 45s that are really serious about the racing wouldn't fit the TV or the teak deck...

For what it's worth I think IRC had it right in the last 10 years, but now there's clearly a disconnect in that there are a whole fleets of boats, especially in the Solent, which are cruiser racers but never cruise. But, certainly below the 40 foot mark, owning a boat that's better for racing - i.e. big cockpit, minimal interior, bit lighter etc also almost guarantees that you're not competitive....

Looking at the 38ft mark, what's light?
My impression of the hard core racing going on at the Solent is that it's 38-45ft racer/"cruisers", dry sailed. Am I correct?
We don't see many top of the range boats in the Liverpool/N Wales fleet and the average race yacht is a 10-15 year old 33 footer with a handful of bigger ones and a fair number of smaller.

 

[flaming]

I hear you Flaming but as a guy who has just received his fist IRC cert for our 15 year old boat I'm glad that IRC is the way it is. If it favoured the latest and greatest participation would shurely be lower. We're certainly a long way from making any sorts of excuses for why we're not near the top of the fleet but do you reckon that some of the very fast boats might attract "boy racer" types who are more likely to blame their boat rather than themselves? I also imagine that these boats are harder to sail to their potential.

That's very true, and it's asking the impossible for a rating system to be fair to out and out racers and cruiser racers at the same time. The problem is that since all the proposed "grand prix" rules were basically still born, IRC is the only game in town, so that's the job it's being asked to do.
Historically the balance has been in favour of the older, heavier, boat. And there's no doubt that this has done a good job of holding fleet numbers up. But I think we're close to a tipping point, where the amount of people who have the time to race as well as cruise, is becoming so small that all it's really doing is forcing people who only race to sail boats with full interiors and small cockpits.

 

[flaming]

Looking at the 38ft mark, what's light?
My impression of the hard core racing going on at the Solent is that it's 38-45ft racer/"cruisers", dry sailed. Am I correct?

I'd say that was about right. I'd take the lower limit down to 35' though.

 

[flaming]

I wonder if that's true. I'd be willing to bet there are more boats racing PY and variants than IRC but I dont know how we could check. I suppose it depends what you mean by "major".

Having never really raced PY (other than a pursuit race where they combined IRC and PY) I don't know about numbers. But I'd call major the rule which is used for the highest profile events - the Fastnet, Cowes week etc.

Interesting comment. So the allowances for a bit of weight, roller furling etc are a bit too generous?

Incidentally, where can I find out what the standard rig is on a boat? EG, does a First 31.7 rate with roller furling as standard or foiled sails? Question comes up because we have such a boat who is very fast on handicap ( way faster than others with similar handicaps) but is using exotic laminates in a foil on the standard rating.

For PY I have no idea, but for IRC you declare sail area and if you're using multiple headsails.

 

[snooks]

More photos here

Small 360 of the interior here