Beneteau first 20 or Elan 210??

[mike_1982]

Good morning folks,
In the next few weeks I want to buy my first yacht and I was considering both of these boats.
I have always liked the beneteau first 21x range however I have noticed the Elan 210 more recently.
Which would you recommend if you had the choice?
Thanks, Mike

 

[ariette]

I owned a Benny 211 and then an Elan 31 and I have to say that the Elan is much better built and sailed very well. If you buy the benny make sure you have the keel mechanism thoroughly checked- see other threads on the issue.

 

[Seajet]

If this is your first ' yacht ' then I and others would strongly suggest you buy a lot cheaper boat than a trendy lightweight, and find what sort of sailing you enjoy doing, how it suits your home port / berth etc.

One's ideas and opinions can change drastically after a season or two !

 

[Austerby]

I agree with Seajet: when I was first looking at buying a yacht I was very interested in the small Beneteau range (there are other models than you have identified) but ended up with a much less expensive older boat of a similar size which does everything I need. I'm pleased I didn't spend that extra £15k or so.

 

[rwoofer]

Elan 210 is a much better sailing boat, with far more spacious accommodation, however there are compromises, for example no protected cockpit. The Beneteau is a good boat however. Personally I went for the now discontinued Jeanneau equivalent, the Sun 2000. Similar performance to the Beneteau, much bigger and more comfortable cockpit (similar space inside) and a centreboard that can be lifted by hand in 2 seconds that makes beaching a joy.

I don't really agree with the other posters comments, as I think they are all great boats myself and their popularity means they sell easily. I think Rob Humphries actually owns a 210 himself which has to say something.

I think the differences in opinion you will hear on these fora is often based on people's own reference points of fast, safe etc based on past experience. I've taken my Sun2000 upwind in 25knots of wind over tide in the solent which was fun, but a bit tiring. Others might claim the same experience was life threatening. What I have learnt about small boats is that they do need to perform otherwise you'll never get anywhere under sail.

 

[Seajet]

Isn't ' past experience ' what Mike 1982 is exactly looking for by coming here ?!

Mike, please tell us what sort of sailing you envisage, then we idiots might be able to give a clue, I think we average 20+ years experience with your sort of boat.

The question is what sort of mooring; half tide or deep water, or a marina ?

As for sailing is it the odd day sail, weekends, or a week or two away ?

 

[mrming]

If you can find one, the older First 235 is a quicker boat than the 210 / 211 / 21.7 with much nicer accomodation. The Elan 210 looks like a lot of fun but can't sail to it's rather harsh IRC rating so not a good option if you want to race.

 

[mike_1982]

Want it for daysailing (very occasional weekend), with wife and small child - therefore I want something safe, stable and relatively easy to handle.
It will be more than likely kept in a marina in N.Wales for summer months, on trailor for winter.

Thanks, for the replies.
Mike

 

[mrming]

Want it for daysailing (very occasional weekend), with wife and small child - therefore I want something safe, stable and relatively easy to handle.
It will be more than likely kept in a marina in N.Wales for summer months, on trailor for winter.

Thanks, for the replies.
Mike

All the boats mentioned above are quite racy. I think if you want something easy to handle, a slightly more cruisy boat would be a good idea. The Etap 23i would be worth a look.

 

[roblpm]

All the boats mentioned above are quite racy. I think if you want something easy to handle, a slightly more cruisy boat would be a good idea. The Etap 23i would be worth a look.

I would echo this, I took my 2 kids sailing on Windermere on a benny 211. They were 9&11 at the time. Thet loved the size as thet could do everything but it heeled quite a lot with no weight on the rail and wouldn't make for a relaxing weekend boat I think. It was a lot of fun and a great boat.

I have a larger lightweight boat and have just been racing this evening with probably 300kgs of blokes on the rail to keep it flat.

 

[mike_1982]

All the boats mentioned above are quite racy. I think if you want something easy to handle, a slightly more cruisy boat would be a good idea. The Etap 23i would be worth a look.

Not really liking the appearance of the etap boats. They also don't make the 23i anymore its a 21footer.
Mike

 

[dunedin]

Not really liking the appearance of the etap boats. They also don't make the 23i anymore its a 21footer.
Mike

I haven't personally sailed any of these boats, but tend to agree they may be a bit too performance oriented for a first boat and family pottering - UNLESS you are already an experienced dinghy racer in which case you will have the skills to manage the boat.

Also, I think others are suggestion might be better to start with an older, perhaps slightly bigger & heavier boat, rather than buy new. Hence the suggestion of the Etap that is no longer made. I would certainly recommend starting with a second hand boat as get more for money and less money lost if decide to change to a different boat after a couple of seasons, which is very typical.

 

[rwoofer]

Having three little ones myself, the ability to beach easily is a major plus. Nearly every trip, they just want to get onto a beach and build sand castles, paddle etc. That's where a Sun 2000 scores well.

However the Bene, Jeanneau, Elan and Etap 21 are all boats that need to be actively sailed ie you can't just leave the tiller to do so something else and in gusty winds you will need to be near the main sheet. If you have sailed dinghies this is no problem at all, but if you just want the boat to look after themselves then they are not the right choice. They do however get to places quicker and personally I just wouldn't enjoy boats that are any slower than the above mentioned.

 

[ivorufo]

First 217 - a fantastic little boat - more cruisey than a Sun 2000 but a sparkling performer.....I have a real beauty...available end of Sept.

 

[TSB240]

Having three little ones myself, the ability to beach easily is a major plus. Nearly every trip, they just want to get onto a beach and build sand castles, paddle etc. That's where a Sun 2000 scores well.

.

Totally agree also saves having to stow or tow a Dinghy!

We have just sold our trailable Trapper TS 240 this was extensively cruised around North Wales and the IOM. Ideal as it could be beached without legs unlike the Elan or the Bene which would fall over without them!

Good stiff boat that performs well with a very deep bulbed lifting keel and a deep cockpit which gives great security with children.

Lifting keel or Bilge keels are a positive benefit as we now struggle to get even a shoal draft fin keeler into some of the anchorages we used to use.

Where are you hoping to be based Conway, Caernarfon, Holyhead or Pwllheli or Porthmadog?

 

[Skylark]

Not really liking the appearance of the etap boats. They also don't make the 23i anymore its a 21footer.
Mike

Mike, it's not really clear, but implied, that you fancy buying new. A lot of advice seems to be against this. I'm all for it. There's something uniquely pleasurable in buying a brand new boat. Go for it! It's only money and we're only here once!

Look forward to seeing around the North Wales coast.

 

[mrming]

I'm not personally advising against buying new. Just offering a word of caution regarding buying a pocket rocket to take your wife and small child sailing. As others have said if the OP is an experienced dinghy sailor he will be fine.

 

[TSB240]

Good morning folks,
In the next few weeks I want to buy my first yacht and I was considering both of these boats.
I have always liked the beneteau first 21x range however I have noticed the Elan 210 more recently.
Which would you recommend if you had the choice?
Thanks, Mike

Mike

If you are like Dave, You are obviously not planning having any pockets sewn into your shroud!

If you are choosing to buy new and have narrowed your choice to the above then both fit the "keep in Marina, trail home for winter" category around N Wales.

If you intend to do the towing home make sure you have a 4*4.

Neither can be easily dried out when day sailing so you will still want to have a small dinghy.

The Elan has the capability to lift the keel but it involves removing the keel box top erecting a winch crane and leaves an open to water box inside your cabin and a potentially very intrusive smelly keel for company overnight! It is really only practical for reducing depth for loading onto trailer.

The Bene and its earlier derivatives are Europe's best selling small boat. I wouldn't be put off by the pocket rocket comments! You can always make a small fast boat go slower. The reverse is not true obviously!

If you are planning Marina base in North Wales this will mean one of 7 possible venues Conway, Deganwy, Pwllheli, Holyhead (very rough in a northerly) Caernarfon(long waiting list unless your resident in NW?) or Y Felinheli would be suitable for either boat.

If Rhyl then only the Bene would be recommended on a mud berth.(rudders are not supportive and lift vertically)

Both Boats would be suitable for day sailing en famille from all venues.
You might have to restrict your sailing area in rougher conditions until you and your family gain confidence to venture further afield.

The Elan has a well mounted OB which is probably better placed for motoring through the very steep wind against tide that you will inevitably encounter in all the North Wales cruising areas especially Conway, Menai Strait or off Carmel Head or Lynas.

I don't know what size Ob the Elan or the Bene can carry but I would recommend that as a minimum you have a 6 hp 4 stroke. Our bigger and heavier TS240 had a 9.8 2 stroke that gave confidence when needed in 5 knot spring tides.

Get a set of legs for propping it up whichever you buy!

IMHO I am an ex Pwllheli resident and its ok but in a small boat you wont go out often in stronger south westerlies i either boat. Holyhead has some big tidal gates at South Stack and Carmel head! Conway its a long way in and out of the river to the fairway.
If you are looking for an initial learning/cruising ground for either boat you cant go very far wrong with the Menai canal with the occasional venture out to sea around the corner! Majority of North West training and sailing schools boats based at Y Felinheli or Plas Menai for a good reason!

Hope this is of use for your decision.

Steve

 

[ivorufo]

Mike - have sent pm

 

[mike_1982]

I live in Llandudno at the moment but I'm hoping move back to Anglesey, if I sell the house.
So I'm thinking of keeping whatever boat I get at Holyhead or maybe Caernarfon.

Mike