Beneteau Build Quality

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abedwell

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I know loads of people will probably hate me for this, but here goes...
Is it true that beneteaus and jeanneaus (is that how you spell it?) are built to a poor standard?I have heard meny tales of beneteaus have had fittings come out of the deck and the like in a stormy sea? is this true? any info would be appreciated.

Alex
 
Why are Beneteaus and Jeanneaus bought by private owners and put into service with charter companies where they are subjected to 5 or 10 years of very hard usage (probably the same as 30 years of weekend sailing) - and generally survive OK?

I dont think the reason is because they spontaneously fall apart......
 
They are amongst the most popular makes of yacht in the world, so if something goes wrong it is more likely to be a Beb or Gen than just about any other make of boat because of the sheer numbers.

A bit like when Volvo were the most popular engines, they got a bad reputation with some because it seemed that if a deisel went wrong, it was always a Volvo because there were so many of them around.
 
Yes Alex, thats right, they also sail best with the mast pointing downwards!

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

What rot,

To pull a fitting off the deck of a modern boat would entail pulling the main frame from the hull in that case the yacht would quickly sink (you see the deck has no part to play in anchoring shrouds on a modern boat). Haven't noticed a great cull in yacht numbers from unexplained sinkings brought about by important bits falling off so I think you are being misled.

You should be able to pick up a modern yacht from any deck fitting such is the strength of modern layups.

Wind strength simply heels the boat, once heeled that is the maximum stress you can apply, more wind = more heel same stress.

Ben, Jen, Bav, X, Max, Marlo, Rassy are all made to a price and its true to say that over recent years all manufacturers have cheapened their production boats but they all put strength where its needed and dont compromise on that.

HOWEVER having said that to be specific, there is a great deal of difference in the way a Jeanneau is built compared to a Beneteau but this doesnt seem to affect their ability to survive strong winds.
 
I blame the French

Seriously, they build what sells (spacious interiors just like at home,nice big 'look at me I am the boss and captain' command station to drive it from),lots of hot showers,minimal cleaning and polishing, sail well enough to suit most peoples use,are cranked out like cars so quality should theoretically be regulated and 'up to the job'..
I am not sure I could tell the difference between the two manufacturers at 50 metres though...
If you were wanting to sail hard,upwind in far off seas not my first choice of yacht but hey ho each troll chooses their own.
 
Jeanneau, going up wind in a blow. Reefing slug pulled out of the slot on the bottom of the boom. Heads door came off its rising butt hinges (why did it have rising butt hinges?), light fittings dropped out of deckhead. (2000 40.2)

1998 36.2, engine cooling water intake too shallow, so that motoring in a seaway with the wind coming from portside meant that more air tham water was entering the cooling system.

Ask Nicho, of this parish, about a big Jeaaneau he waas delivering where, amongst other problems, the forecabin furniture was destroyed by hull flex.

None of this is hearsay.

Things many have improved since then. On the other hand...
 
I used to be associated with a company that sold large numbers of these AWBs. They are much better designed than twenty years ago, a lot of the input comes from the millions of hours of usage by charterers, some by technologists who know more about modern materials. Sure there are compromises (large rear cabins make for wide sterns and less easy beating to windward) but overall I think it is true to say that much progress has been made.
Inevitably there were some problems....... both with the boats as manufactured and with our service as dealers. However I would say that, of the several hundred boats that passed through in my time, the incidence of fittings pulling out of the deck was so rare that I cannot recall any at all. (Whereas dropping headlinings, wiring problems and the like were the bane of our lives). Oh, and I do recall one 45 footer which suffered flexing of the hull and consequent furniture dislocation in the forecabin, but that proved to have occured when motoring into a F11.
As ever, you can buy better quality, but at a bigger price.
 
A smallish Beneteau (20 something feet) bought new this year was wrecked in the May gale on the Blackwater when the bow roller catasrophically failed and she broke from her mooring. I inspected the result on the beach and can confirm that I had similarly specced deck fittings on my Wayfarer some years ago.

Can't speak from experience on the bigger models, other than to say we have several on our moorings and nothing on them has failed in this way afaik. Their owners are invariably pleased with them.
 
Without commenting on other posts, I have been involved in the yachtbuilding industry all my life. The problem generally is that there are two factors that affect yachtbuilders success. One is the volume of sales they achieve and the other is their profit margin. Price is critical to both and low prices can only be achieved by value analysis. That means giving the buyer what he wants/demands (no more) at the lowest possible cost. Most of the successful high volume designs are therefore barely adequate and cheap to buy. If you want something that is built to do more than the minimum it needs to do you need to pay for it. It all depends on your sailing requirements. If you want to drive within the speed limit on UK roads and have your car be trouble free for 5-7 years buy a Jap saloon for £15,000. If you want to win a F1 race you will need a bit more than that....
 
Mike,

With all due respect, I don't think that comment reflects upon the modern high volume boat builders capabilities at all.

Yes, low volume builders face the choices you describe, but high volume builders can achieve some of the same aims through better use of modern design and production technologies, without sacrificing strength or durability.

Strength can be achieved through using extra material, or by using the material in the right places.... it can be achieved through carefully controlled wetting out systems, high tech curing environments, better tolerance of cutting and shaping, etc etc.... not just through thicker and heavier.

Modern cars are a great analogy.... they are generally all vastly superior to cars of just a few years ago.... because of better materials and better design... and they don't generally cost more than they used to....
 
I had a long chat with some of the guys who do rigging work in Antigua this year as they had to fix my Raymarine masthead unit. We talked about the cheaper end of the market and I suggested that come the 'lottery win' I would think about an Oyster or suchlike. To my surprise the consensus was the expensive boats gave just as much trouble as any other. The real trick being to buy one a couple of years old so that the original owner has to sort out all the teething troubles - irrespective of the type of boat. They quoted a 6 month old Oyster 55 with over 60 outstanding defects - funny you don't hear this sort of story being used to slag off Oysters!!! There was no prejudice agasint BeneJens at all and thes guys should know, they do everything from my type up to mega million mega yachts.
 
There were quite a few jeanneaus an beneteaus in Porto Santo this year that were taking part in the Transquadra race.They had sailed ftom St Nazaire and raced all the way there in strong winds.They behaved as well as all the others despite being in standard trim.
 
We had a family Jeanneau for 5 years, bought when it was 5 years old. In the whole time we owned it nothing broke apart from a Garmin bracket. I dont think I would have sailed the Atlantic in it, but it was great for our needs.
 
Boats break, it must be something to do with their long lifespan and constant exposure to a tough and sometimes unpredictable environment ? Coupled with varying degrees of human and technical assembly conditions in the manufacture stage and lots of subsequent operator abuse, often unknowingly- I think I can speak for more than just me,there.
Tee hee.

Mate of mine just phoned from Norway,stuck on a new x million krona diveboat, they bust it and are getting it fixed.

I don't think I have been on any vessel that hasn't broke at some point,but,modesty aside, I am quite good at fixing them in unusual places/conditions as are we all who sail on a budget !

Every boat I have ever sailed on has broken itself at some point (nothing to do with the crew,you understand). I am particularly proud to have helped push a HR hard enough that all the drawers flew out,most deck hatches started to leak,the main engine decided that all its warning lights should come on and stay on,the joinery creaked horribly as the hull noticeably flexed and shuddered,and we buggered the inner jib/forestay arrangement. 45knots in the gusts for 6 hours only..and we went forwards into it just fine,ducke behind the hardtop,thankyou...
Bendytoes in those sort of conditions I would expect to be sailing a bit more sideways,a bit more slam bam and more bam and watch the rig,feel the flex and hope that all that 'engineered to an acceptable cost/value' steering gear and spade rudder hang in there...Be surprised though to see winches and cleats leaping out of the decks as waves burst onto the furled genoa..
Mind you ,lighter is better,imo and testing to failure point is acceptable and then adding a bit more strength,so long as life and limb are not endangered and the crew are knowleadgeably aware of the risk and consequence..

Want me to 'test' your boat ? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
My guess is that boats are like cars - you get what you pay for or to be more accurate, you dont get more than you pay for. So I would see Bennies as like Citroen or Renault. Serviceable. Even hard wearing if you get a good un. But dont expect lexus quality for Citroen cost. Dont expect Swan quality for Benny cost either.

Will they fall apart? No, of course they wont. They sell to the charter market and wouldnt do so if they self destructed.
 
To further the car analogy, I have owned a mercedez and soon wishes I never bought the thing. Depsite paying a premium price it was the worst car I ever purchased, it had both niggly and major faults and could not wait to get rid of it. It was vastly overpriced and living on it's repuation. Similarly I have had much cheaper cars, Mazda, Fords etc which have been brilliant.

As to boats I have been on many flotilla and charter boats, mostly Beneteau, some have been better than others, the odd cupboard does come open, holding tank some times got blocked, but none have fallen apart at sea and I never felt unsafe in any of them.
 
I wouldn't argue with any of that. That in fact is what "value analysis" is all about.
Giving the punter what he wants at lowest possible cost. I think in fact that the volume manufacturers often do a very good job. Without naming any though there ARE a good number of structural failures of bolted on keels, rudder failures, fittings tearing out of decks, and other failures talked about on these forums on volume produced boats. Usually these things come about by the user not recognising the limitation of the boats design and not demanding more but occasionally it's due to the VA approach going too far. There are thousands of very satisfied owners out there perfectly happy with their boats. They do what they are designed to do and do that very well indeed. But there is a world of difference between say a Bavaria and a Swan both in quality and capability. But the Swan comes at a Swan price!
 
Fair points.

But I don't personally think that the Swans, HRs, Malos etc are significantly better....

I had a look round a very nice Najad recently, and after all the discussion on this forum about the build quality and robustness of certain makes of boat, was somewhat surprised to find the internal woodwork, fixtures and fittings to be of no better quality, size or strength than my own Beneteau... the same veneers, same bulkhead thicknesses, identical hinges, no less robustness or feeling of solidity....

In short, while it was a lovely boat, I would have personally found it very difficult to identify what the extra cost was spent on...

Now admittedly, my Beneteau is 15yrs old, so possibly a bit more robust than newer ones, but even then I am suspicious...

I think that a lot of it is marketing hype... especially as hull forms all homogenise and the traditional deep hull, long keel shape is lost to history.
 
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