Belgium Again!

[GTom]

The chap who was the subject of the OP, would have been wise not to have filled his tank in Dover, but filled asap on first arrival in Belgium, he would then have had a nice Belgian invoice & white fuel. Thus saving €500

Only if he sailed to the fuel berth, tanks bone dry and cleaned the filter. Even then, the last drops of red in the fuel lines might make it pink enough...

This is my problem with enforcing the directive: many boats have been on the dry since last autumn, with more or less red in their bellies, resumed sailing maybe few weeks-days ago. Do they actually have to spend cleaning on their formerly legally filled fuel systems? Red traces, especially in some sailing boats will be there for 5+years even after a country-wide ban on red diesel.

 

[Old Harry]

Only if he sailed to the fuel berth, tanks bone dry and cleaned the filter. Even then, the last drops of red in the fuel lines might make it pink enough...

This is my problem with enforcing the directive: many boats have been on the dry since last autumn, with more or less red in their bellies, resumed sailing maybe few weeks-days ago. Do they actually have to spend cleaning on their formerly legally filled fuel systems? Red traces, especially in some sailing boats will be there for 5+years even after a country-wide ban on red diesel.

See post 44

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Only if he sailed to the fuel berth, tanks bone dry and cleaned the filter. Even then, the last drops of red in the fuel lines might make it pink enough...

This is my problem with enforcing the directive: many boats have been on the dry since last autumn, with more or less red in their bellies, resumed sailing maybe few weeks-days ago. Do they actually have to spend cleaning on their formerly legally filled fuel systems? Red traces, especially in some sailing boats will be there for 5+years even after a country-wide ban on red diesel.

See post 44

There is actually a limit in terms of detection of dye stuffs within the EU legislation ( I can't be arsed to find it for you but it has been quoted in forum discussions) However if you have any trace of red and there will be in the tank and filter bowl unless you purge and steam clean the tank you will see visual traces of red dye which is enough to get you into trouble.
Having said all of that it isn't my problem and wouldn't be if I still kept a boat on the East Coast as my tanks were clean but if you think you can get away with it give it a try and let us know how you get on.

 

[GTom]

See post 44

What about that? Before the court ruling (not the directive) the local legislation allowed the use of red - or its blend. Meaning, the boater, who is subject of British law, not EU directives, legally bought red fuel in the UK.
True however, that a country may sanction marked fuel, but quite weird doing so after they made clear official communication in the opposite direction.

More, I wonder why just Belgium? Thousands of UK boats visit Norway, France, Netherlands, the Med - haven't heard any similar stories...

 

[GHA]

The chap who was the subject of the OP, would have been wise not to have filled his tank in Dover, but filled asap on first arrival in Belgium, he would then have had a nice Belgian invoice & white fuel. Thus saving €500

Maybe he thought he was being wise by reading whatvthe Belgian authorities said and complying. Or maybe he didn't and the receipt wasn't signed & insufficient. Or maybe on a web forum people are making assumptions on events based on scant 2nd hand information ..... Such is the way of forums

 

[LadyInBed]

My tanks hold 400 ltrs so I shan't be switching to exclusively white unless all the SW fuel pontoons have it on offer.
Belgium isn't in my normal cruising grounds. I guess it won't be in the foreseeable future!

 

[vyv_cox]

Maybe he thought he was being wise by reading whatvthe Belgian authorities said and complying. Or maybe he didn't and the receipt wasn't signed & insufficient. Or maybe on a web forum people are making assumptions on events based on scant 2nd hand information ..... Such is the way of forums

The full information is on the CA site but I believe that to copy and paste it here would not be ethical. There is clear information, shown above, that as recently as March 2019 the CA was assured that there would be no prosecutions.

 

[Blue Sunray]

As long as you can get genuine Amstel brewed in Amsterdam using the brackish Amsterdam water it’s a great beer, the Amstel sold in the UK brewed over here isn’t Amstel it’s just a homogenous c**p. Same goes for the ‘fake’ Heineken sold in the UK.

Completely true, but none are Belgian, except to the more cerebrally challenged.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The full information is on the CA site but I believe that to copy and paste it here would not be ethical. There is clear information, shown above, that as recently as March 2019 the CA was assured that there would be no prosecutions.

Was there a prosecution in this latest case or was a fixed-penalty notice paid to avoid prosecution?

 

[Old Harry]

Maybe he thought he was being wise by reading whatvthe Belgian authorities said and complying. Or maybe he didn't and the receipt wasn't signed & insufficient. Or maybe on a web forum people are making assumptions on events based on scant 2nd hand information ..... Such is the way of forums

Maybe he just had "Marked" fuel in his tank. It is apparently reported / published by the CA so one can only assume it to be correct

 

[vyv_cox]

Was there a prosecution in this latest case or was a fixed-penalty notice paid to avoid prosecution?

Fixed penalty. The owner was quite shocked and upset, left Nieuwport immediately.

 

[Tomahawk]

I could live with the Belgians if... if, they would compromise..
... and would accept filling with white fuel on arrival in Belgium

Yes there is residue of ref fuel, but at least I have bought local fuel. Until there is clarity and no chnace of being fined, I will not go to Belgium.

 

[Tomahawk]

Looked up the Belgian customes offices and found an email address..

info.douane@minfin.fed.be

I am sending them an email explaining I want to visit Oostend, but I am not prepared to risk a huge fine and asking what practical arrangements are in place.

If everyone does similar, they might get a sense of it being a problem.

 

[GHA]

Maybe he just had "Marked" fuel in his tank. It is apparently reported / published by the CA so one can only assume it to be correct

Both sound very likely. As is the statement from Belgium saying no problem this year, we'll let you know if we change our minds. So no reason for the guy to think otherwise, no reason.

One thought though, good thing the CA/RYA are around to fight stuff like this.

And if it was just a lone incident ignoring or unaware of the official stance or higher up tjere was a change of mind and they forgot to tell anyone, then it's blown it for Belgium, few will trust them anymore.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Sounds like they have either reneged of were unaware of an agreement then. Bit naughty of them.

Apart from the unfortunate chap who was fined €500, it’s the Belgian marinas and businesses who will be the losers. I was contemplating taking my boat that way, but with over 3000 litres of red in my tanks it’s most definitely on my personal black list.

It’s a real shame, as all the Belgians I know are delightful people.

 

[Seven Spades]

The whole principal behind EU law is completely wrong. The colour of diesel is not important it is whether it whether it was bought in the EU and if so was it taxed when paid for. Boats move around the planet and fuel can be marked at any location, I have no idea what colour the fuel is in Tunisia, Turkey, Montenegro, Gibraltar or the Channel Islands. What I do know it is is quite legal to fill up in these places. It is also a nonsense to be fined for entering the EU with fuel purchased from these places.

All the EU needs to do is make sure that there is no rebated fuel available to boats within the EU. the chances of being able to buy fuel at a commercial outlet in the EU is almost 0.

 

[Old Harry]

The whole principal behind EU law is completely wrong. The colour of diesel is not important it is whether it whether it was bought in the EU and if so was it taxed when paid for. Boats move around the planet and fuel can be marked at any location, I have no idea what colour the fuel is in Tunisia, Turkey, Montenegro, Gibraltar or the Channel Islands. What I do know it is is quite legal to fill up in these places. It is also a nonsense to be fined for entering the EU with fuel purchased from these places.

All the EU needs to do is make sure that there is no rebated fuel available to boats within the EU. the chances of being able to buy fuel at a commercial outlet in the EU is almost 0.

And have been thus for over 2 decades.
So much for the RYA & HMG sorting this issue

 

[Malish]

Apart from the unfortunate chap who was fined €500, it’s the Belgian marinas and businesses who will be the losers. I was contemplating taking my boat that way, but with over 3000 litres of red in my tanks it’s most definitely on my personal black list.

It’s a real shame, as all the Belgians I know are delightful people.

The UK also suffers... Can't see too many Belgian yachts coming this way unless the have big tanks or like trips to petrol stations

 

[Champagne Murphy]

The UK also suffers... Can't see too many Belgian yachts coming this way unless the have big tanks or like trips to petrol stations

Here’s an email I received last year;

Good morning Murphy

Thank you for your enquiry.

We presently serve three fuels for leisure vessels at Ramsgate from our own fuel barge; these are FAME free red marine gas oil, white diesel (not FAME free) and unleaded petrol.

We're hoping that in line with the recent ruling, the industry will soon be in a position to be able to provide FAME free white diesel.
Kind regards



Robert Brown.



Harbour Master & Marine Operations Manager
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...-red-diesel-BEWARE/page42#JQCshm5wFgcxTyjr.99

So white is available for visiting craft from the EU but only in Ramsgate! (Southwold were selling white but I’m not sure if they still do)

 

[GHA]

CA link if it hasn't been posted already. They've blown it this time..

https://www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_in_EU