Be very when the US Navy's around

[BelleSerene]

All pretty irrelevant really but one might guess that I have nothing better to do than wind capnsensible up.
Would be much more fun if we could do it over a pint in a club bar somewhere

Then let’s. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?513278-Winter-pub-meet

 

[capnsensible]

Says only monkeys live in the Gib caves, no mention of the trolls from further north

there are none so blind......

 

[JumbleDuck]

And no, Gibraltar is not a colony.

Indeed. I believe the correct term is "occupied territory".

 

[BelleSerene]

Indeed. I believe the correct term is "occupied territory".

You don’t think that implies a lack of consent by the populus? Of an 88% turnout in their referendum (2002), a staggering 99% voted against shared sovereignty with Spain, the alternative to the existing British sovereignty. It would be absurd to call that an occupation.

 

[Daydream believer]

Indeed. I believe the correct term is "occupied territory".

Which reinforces the description " colony", if one looks at the definitions posted in various dictionaries

 

[prv]

You don’t think that implies a lack of consent by the populus? Of an 88% turnout in their referendum (2002), a staggering 99% voted against shared sovereignty with Spain, the alternative to the existing British sovereignty. It would be absurd to call that an occupation.

I think it's the Spanish who consider that some of their territory has been occupied

Pete

 

[BelleSerene]

I think it's the Spanish who consider that some of their territory has been occupied

Pete

Of course: silly me, I guess that’s what the Cap’n meant.

Perhaps the Spanish shouldn’t have signed Gibraltar in perpetuity to Britain in the treaty of Utrecht then [ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Utrecht ], and also confirmed its British sovereignty in two subsequent treaties.

 

[alant]

You don’t think that implies a lack of consent by the populus? Of an 88% turnout in their referendum (2002), a staggering 99% voted against shared sovereignty with Spain, the alternative to the existing British sovereignty. It would be absurd to call that an occupation.

Shock/horror, why has the 1% not insisted on a 2nd referendum, which would be the option oft suggested on here?

 

[alant]

I think it's the Spanish who consider that some of their territory has been occupied

Pete

Didn't we give them Minorca as a swop?

 

[BelleSerene]

Didn't we give them Minorca as a swop?

No, Spain ceded Minorca to Britain at the same time as it ceded Gibraltar, in the 1813 peace treaty.

 

[BelleSerene]

Shock/horror, why has the 1% not insisted on a 2nd referendum, which would be the option oft suggested on here?

Perhaps because Spain is doing the job for them - except that it doesn’t care about the overwhelming will of its inhabitants not to become part of Spain or even of a shared entity with Spain.

 

[JumbleDuck]

You don’t think that implies a lack of consent by the populus? Of an 88% turnout in their referendum (2002), a staggering 99% voted against shared sovereignty with Spain, the alternative to the existing British sovereignty. It would be absurd to call that an occupation.

It is the territory which is being occupied, hence the term "occupied territory".

 

[JumbleDuck]

Perhaps the Spanish shouldn’t have signed Gibraltar in perpetuity to Britain in the treaty of Utrecht then

As they did Menorca. Which we had to give back, after invading it several times.

 

[Daydream believer]

It is the territory which is being occupied, hence the term "occupied territory".

So what does that make Scotland then?

 

[mainsail1]

Why do you think that?

https://gcaptain.com/uss-fitzgerald-fault/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crystal_collision

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3934451/Navy-Report-on-USS-Fitzgerald.pdf

The owners of the merchant ship have accepted liability and already paid $17m on account.
The merchant ship was the overtaking vessel albeit from starboard.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So what does that make Scotland then?

Rubbish at football.

 

[duncan99210]

Gibraltar is now a Dependent Territory (since 1981) but it used to be a Crown Colony.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The merchant ship was the overtaking vessel albeit from starboard.

I’m confused about your comment. The overtaking rule explicit takes precedence over the crossing rule so whether the ship was approaching from starboard would only be relevant if there was any doubt and the rules are explicit in this aspect too. In any doubt as to which rule applies, then you give way. This is before you get anywhere near the catch all of Rule 2 with its no excuses for collision.

 

[BelleSerene]

The merchant ship was the overtaking vessel albeit from starboard.

What’s your evidence for saying it was overtaking the warship, MS?

 

[mainsail1]

The reason I mentioned the starboard aspect was that the obvious answer was that the warship had to keep clear but a closer look at the various reports shows that the merchant ship approached from more than 22.5 degrees abaft the beam and was still the overtaking vessel at the time of the collision. Obviously, the warship should have seen what was happening and taken avoiding action when a collision was likely but did not.