Bavaria Yachts

[jonjo]

what about, tanks, furniture, windows, hatches, cabin soles, taps, sinks, toilet, cooker, doors, plumbing, wiring, steering gear, instruments, cockpit table, bilge pumps, stairs, deck fittings, through hulls, furnishings and...

It is interesting that in prior debates on this subject the MAB brigade has regarded strength, laminate thickness and displacement to be synonymous properties. Now presented with numbers that prove an AWB is not a lot lighter once sandwich construction is factored in you need to move the goal posts.

If the comparison is shifted to the latest HR or Malo and the same sized AWB it is difficult to see how laminate thickness could vary much given the raw keel less weights.

Egg shell laminate allegations are scandalous.

 

[jonjo]

Flippin 'eck.... can't you 'elitist' owners ever let up a bit?

The strange thing is Malo37 and I both share the same idea about the perfect 30 something yacht. Unlike Malo37 I don't feel the need to ridicule cheaper designs to justify my dream of owning a Malo 37. Instead I clock up miles and experience in my Bavaria, whereas Malo37 sits in his armchair and decides that saildrives are the stupidest thing ever.

 

[grumpygit]

Flippin 'eck.... can't you 'elitist' owners ever let up a bit?

I just console myself with the fact that I must be dealing with a highly unusual minority, as its hard to believe that anyone who still thinks that paying 3 times the price for a boat built using mid 20th century techniques is better than one built using state of the art construction technology, precise quantity control and computer calculated material dimensioning is actually capable of using a PC, let alone a forum.

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I wonder with this............. "state of the art construction technology, precise quantity control and computer calculated material dimensioning" ...............was used in the making of my bog seat ????.................
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Malo37 Malo37 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 69
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I don't really understand the reason for the emotive comments in this discussion. As far as I know the only evidence is in the photographs so unless someone here actually witnessed the incident, the rest is hearsay and speculation.
Irrespective of all that, the fact that some builders seem to be producing boats with hulls of eggshell like proportions (which this actually is if you compare thickness and volume etc) is pretty poor, and I suppose a direct consequence of the demand for cheaper and bigger boats.

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I have quite a lot photographic evidence to show the bog seat is thicker than a Bav and it's also got a hole in it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[nathanlee]

Good morning:

I have just received an e-mail with three attachments showing the bow of a Bavaria 46 (2007) which had been ripped off. The message stated:

This is a Bavaria 46 (2007). It was sailing in the sheltered bay of Poros with a maximum wind speed of 20 kts and flat water.

I'm not really a fan of the Bav, not because of the build quality, but because of the caravan design. Not my kind of boat, but I'm not everybody and for what some people want to do, they're perfect.

As for sea keeping, I've been on a Bav36 off St Albans Head in a real good blow (we were surfing) and she handled it beautifully. Furthermore, there are plenty of satisfied Bavaria owners out there, so, unless you know the full facts of this incident, I'd suggest that posting it is unfair conjecture over Bavaria's build quality.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

I wonder with this............. "state of the art construction technology, precise quantity control and computer calculated material dimensioning" ...............was used in the making of my bog seat ????.................

Probably.... I would imagine they got fed up of stuffy owners of heavy old boats getting fed up of complaining about splinters in their ar*es, and having to wait 6 months for a s**t, while a new seat was hand made.... (although I guess they liked the huge bills they sent out compared to more recently)

 

[Sailfree]

**** Boats

I have said it before and I will say it again.

If you want a true measure of durability speak to any manager of a charter fleet.

At Hample Point Yacht Charters they have a range of boats from Bavarias, Jeanneaus, Dufours to HR's. In the mass built boats there are some makes missing and one of them I was advised not to buy. Problems encountered in mass built boats are not hull/keel/mast/rudder failings but simple things like engines/gearboxes and locker hinges/catches. If you look at these - the fittings are often common between the mass built and the so called quality boats eg Volvo/Yanmar/Selden/Harken/Lewmar. It is the thickness of the materials and weight of keel that varies. We ultimately pay for the weight of material and the lack of automation in quality boats but they would say we pay for individuality.

While charter boats are frequently used school boats are heavily used and nearly always go out in all conditions. My first boat a Dufour 36 (now named Classic Dream) has been with Hamble School of Yachting for over 12 years and when I owned it always seemed the first choice to sail to France/Belgium on a Sunday night for a YM prep and mile builder weeks course often in a F7 or F8.

I have now had 3 mass produced boats on the charter market. While I have not chosen a Bavaria I have considered them and made my choice on personal taste rather than thinking there is anything wrong with them. All have been OK except the Volvo bits (common to both the cheapest and dearest boats!). I simply cannot justify paying twice the amount for a heavier built quality boat that my initial experience with a sailing school has demonstrated is ultimately no better/durable than a mass produced boat. If I won the lottery and money was no object I would drive a Bently and own an Oyster.

I do not decry anyone choice for a heavier built boat - nice if you can afford it but it is similar to the Bently/Ford comparison. Don't kid yourself that only the Bently will get you to your destination.

So to you armchair warriors - get real - find out the facts about boats that are heavily used and stop trying to justify your own expensive choice by trying to prove cheaper ones are inadequate.

To Squeaky its clear to most of us on here that your genuine attempt to publicise useful information and invite comments have been mis-used by a number of sensitive souls in both camps. Keep it up!!

 

[asteven221]

I often wonder if the people that slag off Bavaria's do so because they can't actually afford one. I suspect that there is a bnit of envy there. They will never, ever admit it though.

It would be interesting to see how many Bavaria owners would happily swap their Bavs for a MAB.

I am sure many considered a MAB, then quickly decided on a Bavaria. You could by a small fleet of MAB's for the price of one "cheapo" Bavaria.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I often wonder if the people that slag off Bavaria's do so because they can't actually afford one. I suspect that there is a bnit of envy there. They will never, ever admit it though.

It would be interesting to see how many Bavaria owners would happily swap their Bavs for a MAB.

I am sure many considered a MAB, then quickly decided on a Bavaria. You could by a small fleet of MAB's for the price of one "cheapo" Bavaria.

Or is it more like those of us who laugh and point at people swanking around in what they call Jaguars but which we know are just tarted up Ford Mondeos ... ?

 

[fireball]

Oh gawd ... here we go again ... mines more expensive/better/heavier than yours ...

FFS people - give it a rest!! Your boats are all CR4P!! The best one is mine ... and no - you can't have a go!

 

[mikeotteau]

Is a Danforth or a CQR the best anchor for a Bavaria ?

 

[Mark-1]

Is a Danforth or a CQR the best anchor for a Bavaria ?

Both the Danforth and CQR are flimsy, modern tat made using untrustworthy high tech building techniques.

The discerning MAB sailor chooses a more traditional anchor solution:

 

[Norman_E]

.

My conclusion is that this charter boat had a much earlier serious hull impact and a botched filler repair. Then the bow was whacked again port-side during the charter racing, then the inevitable happed.

The low res photos provide no opportunity for anyone to offer an informed critique of the design or specification of the bow laminate.

I think you have it right, my first thought on looking at the pictures was that the boat had probably had previous damage and a poor repair, because the layup looks different port and starboard, with the starboard side delaminated. I don't think that this is an issue of build quality at all, but of previous damage repair quality and stupidity following further damage to a vital area of the boat.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I say, this thread is going frightfully well, isn't it?

 

[Malo37]

Just to cheer up the neurotic Bavaria owner(s) - have a look at this thread

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...hp?p=24120+hr37+sale&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

 

[jonjo]

I often wonder if the people that slag off Bavaria's do so because they can't actually afford one. I suspect that there is a bnit of envy there.

After years of dealing with preemptive attacks by the Mab brigade here I have concluded there is a more complex psychological process at play.

Owning a Mab involves subscribing to a group belief system and this belief system is severely tested because Mab ownership delivers a succession of breakdowns, abandoned cruises and painful bills. To keep going owners develop an even more fervent religious conviction about the ultimate superiority of their yachts and the feeble minds of the non believers. It then spills over in this forum.

The real tragedy is that the MAB myth has buoyed up prices, second hand prices of MABs in the UK market can only be explained by the existence of irrational conviction. This deprives new users of the chance to properly renovate and enjoy all those old Westerlys and Moodys.

It would be interesting to see how many Bavaria owners would happily swap their Bavs for a MAB.

I would. I would like to exchange my 35' Bavaria for a similar sized 70's or 80's vintage Westerly. An extra ton of displacement in the same LOA would be nice together with a deeper forefoot. I would prefer the chunky nautical interior of a Westerly over my Bav, any day.

The problem is I know that some shabby original 36ft 25 or 30 year old Westerly advertised at £35k is only worth £15k due the to 40k refit required to turn it into an offshore cruiser that is as reliable, safe and comfortable as my 5 year old Bavaria.

I would need to go to the US to buy a Westerly at a sane price.

 

[trapezeartist]

I am sure many considered a MAB, then quickly decided on a Bavaria. You could by a small fleet of MAB's for the price of one "cheapo" Bavaria.

Yep. That's me. Initially I was suckered-in by all the cr_p about how wonderful MABs are. Then I looked for myself and quickly came to a different conclusion, even though I have a notoriously poor sense of smell.

 

[trapezeartist]

Or is it more like those of us who laugh and point at people swanking around in what they call Jaguars but which we know are just tarted up Ford Mondeos ... ?

I own one of those tarted-up Mondeos. Nice styling, good features, attractive interior, clunky chassis, absolute dog of an engine. The only redeeming feature of the engine is that it does 50mpg, which is double what I've ever achieved with a real Jaguar. The Volvo D1-20 in my Bavaria is a much sweeter engine.

I'll be buying a real Jaguar next time, but I'm very happy with my Bav.

 

[nigelm]

please excuse my ignorance but whats a MAB

 

[Sailfree]

please excuse my ignorance but whats a MAB

Manky Auld Boat - generally a more heavily built GRP boat from the 70's to 90's.

Often with dark wood interiors narrower beams and in need of some TLC. Obviously electrics would have advanced a bit since then.

They do have an advantage in often being more sea kindly as the keel may be a long keel but certainly often longer than current fin keels, they may also have a skeg in front of the rudder (stops ropes being trapped).

The opposite being an AWB in its extreme will be beamy, have more cabins, lighter and with lower ballast ratio and be flatter underneath both in the bow and stern and consequently will slam in any choppy sea. Probably faster though in any given wind.

Hope that helps.

I can understand people choosing and loving both types but cannot understand many's intolerance to other preferences. I have always had AWB's as large boats as I do not have the time to do the repairs on MAB's but until recently always loved our 24yr old wooden wayfarer but reluctantly I have had to change to the new Mk5 GRP wayfarer now!

You will find this subject a regular thread/troll every time the word Bavaria is mentioned, unfortunately it often seems to bring out the worst in formites but between the rubbish there are some information and constructive thoughts.

Never underestimate the number of people who buy a boat or a motorcycle to "tinker/repair" them and get endless hours of pleasure without actually sailing or riding them! For a number their choice is dictated by economics.

 

[Stemar]

Manky Auld Boat

Just like my Snapdragon 24 which, for all her faults, I love to bits. I recently sailed on a 39ft AWB (Average/Anonymous White Boat) and I actually like Jissel better.

The bigun slammed audibly in a 2ft Solent chop and has about half an acre of open space at the foot of the companionway - great in a marina, but no good at all in a blow. Also, there's no way to reach the main sheet from the helm. On Jissel, everything's to hand so single handing's easy, and there's practically no room to fall over.

More importantly, I can ('til the next budget ) afford to run her, which I wouldn't with a "posh" boat.