jayjay2
New Member
Can anyone give any info on the bavaria 42 cruiser. I was considering ordering one but I have just read the article in yachting world about the recall of the bavaria 42 match because it has a faulty keel. can anyone help?
bavaria 42
- Thread starter jayjay2
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tome
Well-Known Member
Jayjay
Welcome to the forum. The cruiser is a different beast to the match, and I haven't heard of any specific problems which should worry you unduly. Having said that, the knock-on effect of the match problems may devalue all Bavs.
There is a fair bit of Bav bashing on these forums so be careful to filter the responses. Quite a few hereabouts own them so should provide useful guidance.
There are 2 distinct groups on here:
AWB (Average White Boat) into which Bavs fall along with Ben/Jen etc
MAB (Manky Auld Boat) slightly ageing heavier build boats with smelly toilets and indestructible hulls.
I fall into MAB, but am tolerated because everyone knows I cross dress occasionally. Like water, you'll find your own level.
Good luck!
Welcome to the forum. The cruiser is a different beast to the match, and I haven't heard of any specific problems which should worry you unduly. Having said that, the knock-on effect of the match problems may devalue all Bavs.
There is a fair bit of Bav bashing on these forums so be careful to filter the responses. Quite a few hereabouts own them so should provide useful guidance.
There are 2 distinct groups on here:
AWB (Average White Boat) into which Bavs fall along with Ben/Jen etc
MAB (Manky Auld Boat) slightly ageing heavier build boats with smelly toilets and indestructible hulls.
I fall into MAB, but am tolerated because everyone knows I cross dress occasionally. Like water, you'll find your own level.
Good luck!
jayjay2
New Member
Thanks for your response on the bavaria 42 cruiser i appreciate your veiws,at present I sail a bav 32 and I have had 3 years troublefree sailing hense the reason I was interested in the bav 42 .
Best wait for the detailed Bavaria response, due quite soon I hear.
If you can read German it would be a good idea to review the Zucker survey report commissioned by the charter company based in the Adriatic that owns the fleet of affected Match 42's. This report is available on their web site.
http://www.adriatic-challenge.com/news/survey/survey-new.pdf
The most level headed reporting of the whole saga was in last month's Yachting World.
Over the past 2 months as the story has unfolded it has looked progressively worse for Bavaria.
I believe that the Bavaria cruiser range shares the same general keel attachment design as the Match range but the forces will be less (shorter keels so less leverage, longer at the hull so more force distribution and wider at the hull so again less leverage and compression.
Opal claim the problem is specific to Match 38's and 42's. They say the Match 35 (last Match model to commence production) is not affected because it benefits from an extra metal structure that takes up some of the keel loading on the hull.
If you can read German it would be a good idea to review the Zucker survey report commissioned by the charter company based in the Adriatic that owns the fleet of affected Match 42's. This report is available on their web site.
http://www.adriatic-challenge.com/news/survey/survey-new.pdf
The most level headed reporting of the whole saga was in last month's Yachting World.
Over the past 2 months as the story has unfolded it has looked progressively worse for Bavaria.
I believe that the Bavaria cruiser range shares the same general keel attachment design as the Match range but the forces will be less (shorter keels so less leverage, longer at the hull so more force distribution and wider at the hull so again less leverage and compression.
Opal claim the problem is specific to Match 38's and 42's. They say the Match 35 (last Match model to commence production) is not affected because it benefits from an extra metal structure that takes up some of the keel loading on the hull.
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't heard of any specific problems which should worry you unduly. Having said that, the knock-on effect of the match problems may devalue all Bavs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think Tom is right in the short-term but perversely this might be just the right time to buy. The latest Opal mailshot is offering Match 38's and 42's at a 12% discount and the true figure is closer to 14% once the free Autohelm 6000 is factored into the equation.
With the recent investment and expansion in production capacity Bavaria will have to manufacture their way through present image difficulties and take the lower margin hit on the chin.
Things will get worse before they get better, but looking ahead... the Westerly image survived 3 insolvencies, wobbly keels and dodgy periods of quality, the Sadler brand image remains high despite the Starlite sandwich delamination debacle, British Hunter is respected despite having shipped all those hulls with bad laminate in the mid 90's and in the last 2 years a Legend and Hanse have lost rudders and sunk.
Bavaria should recover providing the PR department is locked up so it cannot score any more own goals.
I haven't heard of any specific problems which should worry you unduly. Having said that, the knock-on effect of the match problems may devalue all Bavs.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think Tom is right in the short-term but perversely this might be just the right time to buy. The latest Opal mailshot is offering Match 38's and 42's at a 12% discount and the true figure is closer to 14% once the free Autohelm 6000 is factored into the equation.
With the recent investment and expansion in production capacity Bavaria will have to manufacture their way through present image difficulties and take the lower margin hit on the chin.
Things will get worse before they get better, but looking ahead... the Westerly image survived 3 insolvencies, wobbly keels and dodgy periods of quality, the Sadler brand image remains high despite the Starlite sandwich delamination debacle, British Hunter is respected despite having shipped all those hulls with bad laminate in the mid 90's and in the last 2 years a Legend and Hanse have lost rudders and sunk.
Bavaria should recover providing the PR department is locked up so it cannot score any more own goals.
Oops. Just read Robin's PBO post, I was not cribbing honest.
Robin
Well-Known Member
I didn't mention the Hunter Mystery (the 'new' British built classic) just one week out of the wrappings on its delivery trip, waiting for a new engine having done just 25mls. I think there were other defects too including wiring problems but it seemed churlish to ask someone obviously suffering.
Dick Durham's token response to Twister_Kens YM article, in the new YM I got today is pretty pathetic too. Supposed to give the AWB owner's point of view and opportunity to reply, but surely misses the point when he sails a (blue) 'classic' Contessa 32.
Dick Durham's token response to Twister_Kens YM article, in the new YM I got today is pretty pathetic too. Supposed to give the AWB owner's point of view and opportunity to reply, but surely misses the point when he sails a (blue) 'classic' Contessa 32.
B
bob_tyler
Guest
Have you now read the (nearly) 4 page article in the August issue of Yachting World? I suggest that, if so, you are likely to be very seriously reconsidering buying any Bavaria.
I can't speak or read German so was unable to understand the original Zucker & Ptnrs report. Having read the extracts from the survey in YW however, if I was the owner of any Bavaria I would be extremely worried.
How would I know whether my boat suffered from "The visual inspection suggested that the hull laminate was not of the proper standard in all areas (my italics). The amount of resin was too small..............insufficient strength........delamination under load.
Could these problems apply to any other yachts built by this company? Have any other models shown up weaknesses of this nature?
Perhaps Bavaria owners who are forumites might like to contribute to general knowledge on these problems?
I can't speak or read German so was unable to understand the original Zucker & Ptnrs report. Having read the extracts from the survey in YW however, if I was the owner of any Bavaria I would be extremely worried.
How would I know whether my boat suffered from "The visual inspection suggested that the hull laminate was not of the proper standard in all areas (my italics). The amount of resin was too small..............insufficient strength........delamination under load.
Could these problems apply to any other yachts built by this company? Have any other models shown up weaknesses of this nature?
Perhaps Bavaria owners who are forumites might like to contribute to general knowledge on these problems?
[ QUOTE ]
4 page article in the August issue of Yachting World?... you are likely to be very seriously reconsidering buying any Bavaria.
[/ QUOTE ]
The latest Yachting World contribution to this evolving story will be a disappointment to those following events. The previous YW edition moved the story on with genuine news, but this month their "Special Report" has just collated information already in the public domain and stitched it together with thin editorial input.
[ QUOTE ]
How would I know whether my boat suffered from "The visual inspection suggested that the hull laminate was not of the proper standard in all areas (my italics). The amount of resin was too small..............insufficient strength........delamination under load.
[/ QUOTE ]
In other reports it has been stated that a sample of the yacht's GRP laminate was scientifically analyzed at some German specialist material institute and found to be up to standard.
I think the "delamination under load" issue is misleading. We have a situation where a 2.5 ton keel ripped away violently from a GRP hull. In such a destructive incident natural fissure points in a composite material are going to be exposed.
In other sections of the same survey report a plausible sequence of events is described, this details how 3 separate deficiencies in the keel support ultimately lead to loss of the keel. Poor quality GRP is not one of the 3 deficiencies.
As the owner of the Hanse 37 that foundered in the Irish Sea said, it takes 3 failures to trigger a disaster. In his case a broken rudder stock allowed a rapid ingress of water, the life raft failed to inflate but fortunately a nearby yacht heard their mayday and picked them up.
Fix any 1 of the 3 keel support deficiencies in the Match 42 and the keels should remain attached to the boat. The reinforcement specified by J & J designs addresses all 3 problems.
4 page article in the August issue of Yachting World?... you are likely to be very seriously reconsidering buying any Bavaria.
[/ QUOTE ]
The latest Yachting World contribution to this evolving story will be a disappointment to those following events. The previous YW edition moved the story on with genuine news, but this month their "Special Report" has just collated information already in the public domain and stitched it together with thin editorial input.
[ QUOTE ]
How would I know whether my boat suffered from "The visual inspection suggested that the hull laminate was not of the proper standard in all areas (my italics). The amount of resin was too small..............insufficient strength........delamination under load.
[/ QUOTE ]
In other reports it has been stated that a sample of the yacht's GRP laminate was scientifically analyzed at some German specialist material institute and found to be up to standard.
I think the "delamination under load" issue is misleading. We have a situation where a 2.5 ton keel ripped away violently from a GRP hull. In such a destructive incident natural fissure points in a composite material are going to be exposed.
In other sections of the same survey report a plausible sequence of events is described, this details how 3 separate deficiencies in the keel support ultimately lead to loss of the keel. Poor quality GRP is not one of the 3 deficiencies.
As the owner of the Hanse 37 that foundered in the Irish Sea said, it takes 3 failures to trigger a disaster. In his case a broken rudder stock allowed a rapid ingress of water, the life raft failed to inflate but fortunately a nearby yacht heard their mayday and picked them up.
Fix any 1 of the 3 keel support deficiencies in the Match 42 and the keels should remain attached to the boat. The reinforcement specified by J & J designs addresses all 3 problems.
B
bob_tyler
Guest
"In other reports it has been stated that a sample of the yacht's GRP laminate was scientifically analyzed at some German specialist material institute and found to be up to standard"
Where can one see these other reports (in English?)? Are they independent or commissioned by Bavaria or another interested party.
It's the layup comment which, if supervision is lax, would worry me and could apply to any part of the hull or to deck mouldings.
Where can one see these other reports (in English?)? Are they independent or commissioned by Bavaria or another interested party.
It's the layup comment which, if supervision is lax, would worry me and could apply to any part of the hull or to deck mouldings.
[ QUOTE ]
Where can one see these other reports (in English?)? Are they independent or commissioned by Bavaria or another interested party.
[/ QUOTE ]
Commissioned by Bavaria I suspect.
References to good quality laminate have popped up on a number of web pages, here is one:
http://www.bavariayachtbau.de/typo3/index.php?id=67
Tests carried out by the "Süddeutsche Kunststoff Zentrum" on a laminate sample from the damaged yacht, have shown that this Bavaria 42match has almost 80% more laminate than that specified in the stated ISO standard. At the same time, a 42% glass ratio was found in the laminate and a very good laminate with optimum resin ratios was confirmed.
http://www.skz.de/englisch/DEU/INDEX.HTML
Where can one see these other reports (in English?)? Are they independent or commissioned by Bavaria or another interested party.
[/ QUOTE ]
Commissioned by Bavaria I suspect.
References to good quality laminate have popped up on a number of web pages, here is one:
http://www.bavariayachtbau.de/typo3/index.php?id=67
Tests carried out by the "Süddeutsche Kunststoff Zentrum" on a laminate sample from the damaged yacht, have shown that this Bavaria 42match has almost 80% more laminate than that specified in the stated ISO standard. At the same time, a 42% glass ratio was found in the laminate and a very good laminate with optimum resin ratios was confirmed.
http://www.skz.de/englisch/DEU/INDEX.HTML
nicho
RIP
Interesting report, though perhaps not happy reading for the Bavaria "bashers" on this forum.........
