Bavaria 40 - where to put Solar?

MagicalArmchair

MagicalArmchair

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My potential (survey report pending) new boat has no energy generation at all, and the obvious thing to do is to stick a wind generator on, however, I'd like solar too.

Where on earth would be the best place for it? I resist the idea of a solar arch off the stern, however, I suppose that could act as davits also if I get it specced strong enough?

What do others do?

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An arch/ gantry on the stern is the best solution. I’ve seen solar panels hinged onto the guard rails but this can only be used at anchor and can be vulnerable to damage.
 
Does the boat have a bimini? I have flexible panels fitted to the bimini with velcro. Long narrow panels are available that will fit to the coachroof between the grab rails and the rope runs from organisers to clutches.
I question the idea of a wind generator as you need a big one to get more power from it than you would get from a pair of 100 watt panels if you are somewhere sunny like the Med. As an example the Rutland 914i needs 21 knots of wind to generate 140 watts. Where I am the wind averages, day and night much less than that, and I suspect well less than the speed required to produce 50 watts. In terms of cost the solar panels beat wind generation by a big margin unless your sailing is in more northern areas. As for fitting, a wind generator needs a substantial and well braced pole to mount it, and if you are going to install that you may as well install an arch for solar panels as well, or instead.
 
Graham376 said:
I agree with the disagreement:)

We've removed ours as it generated very little and shaded the panels much of the time. Our gantry acts as davits as well as solar mount. Cost wise, watts per pound, solar beats wind every time.
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Ha! Great, thank you, I will bin the idea of wind then! We will be keeping her on the East Coast on Blighty, so slightly more wind, and a trifle less sun, however, sun still seems the best bet.

For the gantry itself, can these be sourced "off the peg"? Or best to manufacture myself or design and have a local stainless engineers put together?
 
MagicalArmchair said:
Ha! Great, thank you, I will bin the idea of wind then! We will be keeping her on the East Coast on Blighty, so slightly more wind, and a trifle less sun, however, sun still seems the best bet.

For the gantry itself, can these be sourced "off the peg"? Or best to manufacture myself or design and have a local stainless engineers put together?
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If you can bend and weld stainless, make it yourself. If not, you'll need to get one custom made. I helped design one and had it made for a 38ft Moody, by a local stainless company earlier this year. It integrates and forms part of the pushpit, has built in, swing out, davits and fixings for the aft end of a bimini. It's fitted with a pair of 200w panels and also carries the GPS and VHF for the AIS transducer.

Not trying to sell you one, if you're near Shotley any time i can show it to you, might provide some inspiration.

Not quite finished here ; https://photos.app.goo.gl/G6EPu6MeWdKiKUV88
 
MagicalArmchair said:
Ha! Great, thank you, I will bin the idea of wind then! We will be keeping her on the East Coast on Blighty, so slightly more wind, and a trifle less sun, however, sun still seems the best bet.

For the gantry itself, can these be sourced "off the peg"? Or best to manufacture myself or design and have a local stainless engineers put together?
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Glad you decided to skip wind-gen. They are useful when no room for more solar and the boat is in an area with high average wind speed. People keep saying they are in UK (even as far north as Scotland) and won't get much from solar. That is not correct and solar still beats wind on cost grounds.

Don't ignore extra solar under the boom if you have in-mast furling. The arch will supply more of your daily needs but rigid panels are pretty cheap and deck mounted ones are useful. I have 145W under the boom and get good output. I do pull the boom to one side or the other to reduce shading but not a big deal in terms of effort.

I use a nice low profile side entry gland from Index Marine (https://www.indexmarine.com/products/waterproof-glands/#SEseries) with extra cable coiled underneath the panels. I can move them out to sit between the side deck and guard rails or on foredeck. I have only done this a couple of times when anchored in a river and panels were mostly shaded. Output is usually good in the central location.

An arch is best and most of my output comes from the arch mounted panels but any extra panels always help.
 
doug748 said:
Looks smart, Iv'e never seen a boat's looks improved by a gantry. Turn the fridge off, keep red wine in it.
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That point did occur to me, however, the lure of being at anchor and not to worry so much about power consumption is too great!

Can anyone suggest a good stainless fabricator in the Kent area? It's something I will gently start investigating and plan something out. I'll probably mock something up to see how horrific it will look :)
 
MagicalArmchair said:
That point did occur to me, however, the lure of being at anchor and not to worry so much about power consumption is too great!

Can anyone suggest a good stainless fabricator in the Kent area? It's something I will gently start investigating and plan something out. I'll probably mock something up to see how horrific it will look :)
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Mocking up is a good idea, particularly as you want it sloped back if going to use as davits as well. I went to local DIY store and got some cheap half inch square lengths of timber and some gaffer tape and built (and rebuilt a few times) until I got something acceptable that could be measured and sketched. I kept it separate from the taff rail, except for a couple of braces as the through deck mounts weren't designed for the extra weight. Bolted it through the aft slope on sides of the sugar scoop and the toe rail/deck junction. Had to get the two inverted U sections of 40mm x 1.5mm tube bent professionally. Don't skimp on strength of materials, the accelerated load of the panels and dinghy + outboard is considerable when the boat is rolling so we remove the outboard (have incorporated an engine lifting derrick) unless flat calm.
 
JFowler said:
. I’ve seen solar panels hinged onto the guard rails but this can only be used at anchor and can be vulnerable to damage.
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Not at all. We routinely sail with the panels ‘up’ and angled as appropriate. If worried about damage (e.g. stern to berthing between adjacent boats) slide the panels over and fold them down INSIDE the guardrails.
 
If your sailing plans are short trips or even North Sea / Channel crossings then you could just fit a plug connection in the cockpit and have a movable solid panel which you deploy in harbour and placed below when sailing.
 
RivalRedwing said:
If your sailing plans are short trips or even North Sea / Channel crossings then you could just fit a plug connection in the cockpit and have a movable solid panel which you deploy in harbour and placed below when sailing.
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Good work, those were my thoughts but I failed to get them out. :-) I understand the OP is mainly interested in family, channel sailing.
There is room, on this boat, in front of the companion and aft of the mast for a semi permanent lodging. Nor is there need for complicated mathematics about consumption and usage, a smaller panel or two could do the job.

There are very good reasons why long term cruisers put up with aft structures on boats but fashion now seems to be playing a part. The effect on performance and handling needs to be weighed in the balance. In my view :)
 
RivalRedwing said:
If your sailing plans are short trips or even North Sea / Channel crossings then you could just fit a plug connection in the cockpit and have a movable solid panel which you deploy in harbour and placed below when sailing.
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Think about that.

You put the panel away during the day, whilst you are sailing, using power for the instruments, plotter, fridge, autopilot or whatever, then you deploy it at the end of the day when you're probably in a marina with shore power or you're in an anchorage with little effective solar charging left in the day.

I have 260w of solar and when i'm sailing on a reasonably sunny day i arrive at my destination with charged batteries, because the panels are fixed and charging all day. Even if i'm in a marina at the end of the day i do not connect shore power, no need as the batteries are charged. The power i use in the evening/through the night will be replaced the following day.
 
doug748 said:
There are very good reasons why long term cruisers put up with aft structures on boats but fashion now seems to be playing a part. The effect on performance and handling needs to be weighed in the balance. In my view :)
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At first, we tried panels on rails but they got in the way and had shading problems. Our boat is heavily loaded below the waterline anyway so noticeable difference in performance and handling with the gantry and panels which are just above boom level and most likely weigh about the same as an extra person on board. The panels are a similar weight to Aerogens, usually mounted at the same height. Being mooring or anchor based most of the time, the dinghy is usually in daily use but when hauled up is about the same height as if lashed on deck but with the advantage it can be launched in seconds and lifted in a minute or two every night.
 
PaulRainbow said:
Think about that.

You put the panel away during the day, whilst you are sailing, using power for the instruments, plotter, fridge, autopilot or whatever, then you deploy it at the end of the day when you're probably in a marina with shore power or you're in an anchorage with little effective solar charging left in the day.

I have 260w of solar and when i'm sailing on a reasonably sunny day i arrive at my destination with charged batteries, because the panels are fixed and charging all day. Even if i'm in a marina at the end of the day i do not connect shore power, no need as the batteries are charged. The power i use in the evening/through the night will be replaced the following day.
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Indeed, but if weekend sailing with some motoring included then not having the batteries permanently linked to solar is not a big deal, the batteries easily recover during the 'working' week via a reasonable solar panel. Plus, through the summer, if day sailing, there could well be a good 8 hours of sunshine to be used before setting off or after returning. A removable panel is not everyones solution but for weekend sailors with a couple of weeks of holiday in the summer they can be a simple, practical option worth consideration. It works for us and we very rarely plug in at marinas.
 
RivalRedwing said:
Indeed, but if weekend sailing with some motoring included then not having the batteries permanently linked to solar is not a big deal, the batteries easily recover during the 'working' week via a reasonable solar panel. Plus, through the summer, if day sailing, there could well be a good 8 hours of sunshine to be used before setting off or after returning. A removable panel is not everyones solution but for weekend sailors with a couple of weeks of holiday in the summer they can be a simple, practical option worth consideration. It works for us and we very rarely plug in at marinas.
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Thanks for posting, what removable panels do you have? What do you fix them to when they are out (for overnight or when you leave the boat) and where do you store them down below?

Edit: Something like this?: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07K3QB8M9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_JPWPDb1YBQHDA
 
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