Bavaria 34 - Opinions???

[Courageous]

Ok I know I'm opening myself up to a cluster of incomings but I have my eye on a Bavaria 34 at a good price. Have sought some advice from a fairly independent broker (he's an amel dealer so no fear of loss of business from his perspective) and he has told me he would simply NOT go anywhere near nor agree to broker a Bavaria. A tad cavalier from someone who has an interest in making money from the sale of other peoples boats but there we go. My question is do any of you chaps have direct experience of these boats and what have your experiences been? Good or bad, positive or negative? I know they are a budget boat and you can't expect Halberg Rassey build quality but what are they really like? Appreciate your help!

 

[john_morris_uk]

The whole contemporary Bavaria range produces a lot of hot air from a lot of people. I believe that the reality is that it depends what you want and where you intend to sail.

If you are seriously going to contemplate sailing across oceans and into mucky channel nights in high winds, it can be argued that you might find other boats which will look after you better, be more comfortable and give you a better time.

However Bav's have sailed across oceans and will probably get you there, albeit not as well as some.

HOWEVER, if you only sail in mild conditions and spend a lot of your time in benign anchorages or in Marinas, a Bav will do you just as well as many other boats.

I frequently examine on Bavarias and some aspects of them drive me mad. The mainsheet arrangement is contrary for some operations (but you might argue that the average family doesn't spend their time doing man overboards and sailing on and off pontoons and bouys...) The way the deck flexes when you walk on it, the way the heads door jambs shut when you are sailing hard on the wind - all of these and more make me not want to own one.

BUT - for the money and what they do, there is a niche in the market. And you can argue that if they were that bad - no-one would buy one in the first place!

Hope that this helps - and stand by for other opinion!!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

That sounds like a reasonably objective position to me....

having looked at them myself too, I would add that the interior design is generally better thought out that many of its less 'mass market' cousins.....

 

[Courageous]

Thank you John for your honest and polite and prompt response! The build quality seems to be the continual criticism of the range. This is obviously of concern since this will always affect the resale value and indeed saleability of the boat. Incidentally this particular broker was of the opinion that if you bought a bav pre 99 they were much better built but since this boat is 2001 and is "The one" at this great price knowledge of the marques pre 99 is academic. The broker particularly rated the 35 holiday for some reason? Not sure what to do here. Being honest I have an Oceanis 351 at the moment and am disappointed with the sailing qualities. Part of the problem is the in mast main but the beam of the 351 does sem to stand in the way of swift passage under sail. The Bavaria being 400mm narrower in the beam led me to believe they might behave a little better. Of course there are much better boats if sailing poerformance is critical but my requirements are for a reasonably priced boat with good accomodation and the reasonable sailing qualities - the holy grail perhaps?

 

[billmacfarlane]

I'm not going to crticise the build qualities or anything else re the Bav range except to say that 100,000.000 lemmings can't all be wrong !! What I am going to question is your wisdom in thinking that the Bavaria is in a different sailing league to the Oceanis. The way I see it is that any difference in sailing performance won't be worth the expense, hassle etc. you'll incur in selling your Beneteau and buying the Bav. If you really want "swift" passages, I think your barking up the wrong tree. I can't imagine the Bav wil be THAT much different.

 

[TigaWave]

Pre 1992 Bavs were very well built ocean capable boats, but on more recent models I feel the size of fittings and standard of build is more marginal. Given the choice I would rather have a 13-14 year old 320 Bav at the same price as a new 34.

I might be biased as I had a 390.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

If Bavaria's reputation continues in the same direction as now, you will not be able to give them away in a few years, if they last that long.

Also with so many on the market they will be a bitch to sell and your resale will be ridiculously low. Any slight damage, such as a mark by the helm, buyers will move to the next Bavaria in the yard. If you buy one, make sure you put plastic wrap over everything now so it never ever looks like you have used the boat!

Personal opinion only... sooory to Bav owners, but they are taking a right hammering at the moment, I would not gamble my life on one to be honest.

 

[Rob_Webb]

I recently did a review of the Bav50 here in NZ. My parting words reflect my views on the whole Bav range:

Now, before rounding off this ticky-tour of first impression of the Bav 50, it has to be acknowledged that these boats have their detractors. True, you might not want to head off into arctic waters or around The Five Capes in any of these so-called ‘plastic fantastics’ but that kind of misses the point. Being designed for the short, choppy seas of Northern Europe, these craft are as well suited as most Kiwi designs to withstand anything the Hauraki Gulf is likely to throw at them. There will remain those purists who just can’t abide the new generation of AWBs (average white boats) but in the last 10 years Bavaria has probably done more to get families afloat than all the other manufacturers combined. The production process is impressive (VW visited Bavaria’s new factory to learn about leading edge techniques) and whilst they might not target the handcrafted finish of a Scandinavian thoroughbred, Bavaria succeed in making modern, family-friendly vessels accessible to more people than ever before. And that’s got to be a good thing.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Come on now Rob. You know as well as I do that any decent yacht has to be like a tunnel out of a prisoner of war camp inside, as wet as a submarine on deck and with a mythical name along the lines of "Contessa of Cape Horn" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

But couldn't agree more with what you have said. Boats are built for the people who buy them and the use they personally want to put them to (even if that means motoring everywhere or just having a bed in the marina) not for third parties who think every boat and its use should be just like their own. Bav's seem to provide a ready and relatively cheap way of getting a new boat that meets the actual needs of the majority of boat owners who mostly don't dream of slogging to windward in heavy seas day after day or doing the Southern Ocean.

Perhaps could also point out that plenty of AWB's do the sometimes very tricky NZ to Pacific route with little problem (including the seasonal repositioning of the charter fleets) - I don't recall any that have got into serious trouble, no doubt there have been but they have been overshadowed by the number of multihulls and (fewer) more "solid" craft abandoned.

John

 

[branko]

Definitelly Bav is very good boat (even for Ocean). A poor details on which we are so critical you can solve for small money during first year and you will have everything OK. Boat near my berth is Benetau Clipper 42 and this boat not offering equal for price differance.

 

[Guest]

Ben ...... sailing quality ?

<<Being honest I have an Oceanis 351 at the moment and am disappointed with the sailing qualities. Part of the problem is the in mast main but the beam of the 351 does sem to stand in the way of swift passage under sail. The Bavaria being 400mm narrower in the beam led me to believe they might behave a little better.>>

Sorry but I would suggest that your biggest problem here is the in-mast main ------- a) it adds considerably to the mast drag and top-hamper, b) cut of main is "c..p" to say the least, c) is a dead compromise to provide a cruising advantage.

The Bav will not generally sail that much better than a standard rig Ben / Oceanis etc. In fact I would expect a standard rig Ben to overhaul a standard rig Bav on most points of sail.

As to quality of the Bav .... as a person who wishes to sell on far beter quality boats at prices just above that of the Bav / Legends .... I am biased - but in all honesty have to say .... if you like bulkheads filled in to fit, spongy decks, and a Ford Anglia of a boat - when there are better around ... BUT it's price led isn't it ....

People are no longer willing to sacrifice comfort for sea-going ability ..... they want their bums comfortably seated and cocktails when not out playing with sails. It all comes at a price - if not a price at a compromise .....

Bav have produced what the market wants .... by having bulk-buying of reasonable good fittings and gear. They production-lined the building ... computerised the laying up etc. Unfortunately it would seem that standards have dropped since the early days .... but that seems to be true of many things nowadays .... first ones are show-pieces - subsequent are for the punters and show errors.

I personally would not refuse a Bav for general pottering around Solent / Coastal work .... but I would really want something else and more confidence inspiring .....

Last - I cannot forget a friends Bav ..... only 6 weeks old ... actually that's a joke as most Bav's have sat in fields waiting delivery - some for a long period ... but of course Bav only stamp the build number (HIN) when it's being shipped out - NOT on build day !! ... (shades of the old Ford / Vauxhall days of cars standing in fields - no buyers - rotting .....). Anyway his boat was so raw that the stink of resin in the cabin was overpowering .... A year later .... it was not much better. GRP boats do have that resin aroma ... but this was as if someone had just left an uncured pot of resin warming through .... I couldn't stay in the cabin .... his was not the only one I found that with ...

Quality comes at a price. Simple.

Improving Ben sailing ability ?? Look at removing the in-mast gear and have a decent main ....
(Thought ... would you fit in-mast to the bav ?? Then you'll probably have even worse !!!)

IMHO of course !!

 

[Juggler7823]

I endorse what Nigel says about the in mast mainsail. The boat next to me on our mooring is a 351 with a normal slab reefing main. It sails well.

 

[Courageous]

Re: Ben ...... sailing quality ?

Yeah, I understand the in mast main is the bigger issue here and I'm looking at the cost of rig replacement right now - if any of you have advice for me here then please SHOUT IT OUT LOUD!!!! I doubt, since I already have costs for sail alone replacement of €3600 main and genny, that I'll end up with much change from €12000..... So, choice 1) spend 12k on 97 benny 351 choice 2) sell the benny and buy a 4 yr newer Bav with the right sail setup possibly €20,000 BELOW the market rate???
Of course we're comparing apples with eggs but ain't that life anyhow? Of course my concern is mostly regardless of the low price of the bav it's all academic as one of you has stated you're never in a position to sell.....

Billmacfarlane - wisdom??? Cost and hassle of selling one and buying the other not exactly an issue if the new one is ridiculously cheap? Yes however I agree if an absolute bargain wasn't in the offing I would have to be crazy!!

 

[Guest]

Re-rig Ben ...

Have you talked to Sea-Teach .............. I'm sure they can come up with a solution at savings against the sort of prices you quote .... they will also take your old in part-ex .... especially if you get the in-mast gear off in good nick etc.

Worth the call ..... I have no connection with ST - just well satisfied with their gear ... even though sometimes their sales manner is a bit off !!

 

[jackho]

I am currently the owner of a Bav. 34 and have cruised extensively off the alantic west coast and around the Western Isles ( Mull of Kyntyre etc.). My boat has never given me any cause for concern so far through all weathers includung gales.
It's fair to day they do slam in short seas but then so do the Ben's etc.
When severely pressed they do creak - but previously Iv'e sailed Etaps and had similar experience - indeed in my experience they all do except the heavier displacement boats. Like the rest , I admire the Halberg Rassys but there not worth the difference in price for the average family sailer. This I think is part of the problem - the sailors who have paid a lot more money for their boats by comparison have to find some reason to justify the cost and keep their value up by whatever means. Mine was the first new bavaria in our local yacht club and this year there will be 3 or 4 (one of which I hope will be my new 37) so they can't all be wrong. What ever you decide good luck in your judgement and safe sailing.
Jacko

 

[Courageous]

Thanx for all of your thoughts chaps. Have contacted Sea-Teach and we'll see what they can do for me. The estimate of €12k was very much just a number swimming around in my little head but we'll see how accurate it is!! Just out of interest have contacted z spars and selden but can anyone think of any other spar manufacturers at all? I'm out of touch with these things and even ran a search on Proctor whch revealed they are now selden hehe!

 

[supra30]

Re: Bavaria creaking

[ QUOTE ]
...
When severely pressed they do creak - but previously Iv'e sailed Etaps and had similar experience - indeed in my experience they all do except the heavier displacement boats.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure about them needing to be severely pressed before you hear creaking!

The Bav 44 I sailed on recently in Greece started creaking down below as soon as the motor went on in a more or less flat sea. By the time you were close reaching in a force 5, it was ridiculous down below. The noise seemed to be caused by the bulkhead/deck 'joints', particularly around the companionway.

Obviously the hull and deck layups allow a huge amount of flexing.

Regards,

Mike

 

[Swagman]

Bavaria 34

We sailed in company with one last year from UK to Lagos in Portugal and they had no issues at all even coming thro' F8/9 cross Biscay.
Met them again this year and they completed their trip to Spanish West Med without any other dramas - and the couple then lived on it through last winter in Denia.
Hope this helps
JOHN

 

[Sans Bateau]

Re: Bavaria creaking

Leaping to the defence of Etaps, as you might expect!

I dont have, or havent had 'creaking' on any of my three Etaps. Curious, do you think there might be something wrong?

Incidently whats this 'slaming' thing people talk about, how does that work?

 

[nightjar]

"I admire the Halberg Rassys but there not worth the difference in price for the average family sailer."

Apart from a superior build quality a HR34 or HR36 will sell for at least its original cost on the second hand market. Price is a very poor measure of value. Cost of ownership on a Bav could be more over 5 - 10 years than a similar size HR.