M
mikenda - delete
Guest
Has anybody got a technique for crimping battery leads onto ring terminals?
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snowleopard
Active member
i have a special ratchet crimper for 6 & 10mm dia wire. it's used with heavy ring terminals and presses in a dimple in the side of the sleeve rather than flattening it like the small ones.
it cost about £16 from w.f.grant (elec wholesalers)
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it cost about £16 from w.f.grant (elec wholesalers)
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G
Guest
Guest
Im not sure if this applies to the type of terminal your using but the way I do it is to cut back the insulation on the battery leads to the required length, then holding the terminal in a pair of pliers melt some solder or lead into it with a blow torch and while still molten and being very careful, insert the battery lead. When cold tidy up the joint with some insulation tape. A perfect conection!.
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G
Guest
Guest
Agree with Russ soldering is by far the best way, make sure inside of crimp is very clean use wire wool, lots of flux tin your cable with solder, I put the crimp in a bench vice and use a small blow torch, leave to cool naturely with out moving the cable, clean off and excess flux with a rag and the use Self Amalgamating Tape for a nice finish, sorry Russ a lot better than insulation tape.
Ed
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Ed
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tome
New member
Crimp if you can - this is the professional way of doing it. A soldered connection can fail in a fault condition where it heats up and unsolders itself. If this happens at the wrong end of a battery terminal, the consequences could be dire. Solder is also prone to corrosion fatigue.
After crimping, the best way of protecting the terminal and cable is to use heat-shrink tubing which is shrunk to a tight fit using a heat gun. Failing this, self-amalgamating tape but never insulating tape.
Crimped leads can be made up for you if you don't have the correct tool.
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After crimping, the best way of protecting the terminal and cable is to use heat-shrink tubing which is shrunk to a tight fit using a heat gun. Failing this, self-amalgamating tape but never insulating tape.
Crimped leads can be made up for you if you don't have the correct tool.
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ccscott49
Active member
You will need the correct type of crimping tool, supplied for the job. The type that crimps in a hexagon fashion is by far the best. Use heatshrink to finish it all off, you can get it in red and black to identify the polarity. Don't solder, it is just not acceptable on boats. You will find vertually every wire to terminal connection is now crimped and not just because of cost.
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tome
New member
Russ
Sorry to say that your's sounds is the perfect recipe for a dry joint. Unless you tin the wire and heat both it and the pre-tinned terminal you will not get proper solder flow and a dry joint will result. You may get away with it until it either vibrates loose or heats up!
Regards
Tom
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Sorry to say that your's sounds is the perfect recipe for a dry joint. Unless you tin the wire and heat both it and the pre-tinned terminal you will not get proper solder flow and a dry joint will result. You may get away with it until it either vibrates loose or heats up!
Regards
Tom
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andyball
New member
quite right....
the crimp tools (proper hexagon ones) can be had for £95+vat(really big)....(or £60 for 50 sq mm cable). Cheapest I found was beal (UK) ltd 0113 253 8888.
Not top quality tools for industrial use, but work very well.
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the crimp tools (proper hexagon ones) can be had for £95+vat(really big)....(or £60 for 50 sq mm cable). Cheapest I found was beal (UK) ltd 0113 253 8888.
Not top quality tools for industrial use, but work very well.
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Evadne
Active member
Heat shrink...
... is also available with glue or mastic lining. Good for keeping the water out, messy when removing. Or you could use the Semi Rigid type to prevent sharp bends occurring at the crimp joint, the commonest cause of failure after corrosion. Both types usually only available in black though. (Go to your local electrical suppliers, Maplins, CPC, Farnell or RS as all are cheaper than a chandlery).
Dave
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... is also available with glue or mastic lining. Good for keeping the water out, messy when removing. Or you could use the Semi Rigid type to prevent sharp bends occurring at the crimp joint, the commonest cause of failure after corrosion. Both types usually only available in black though. (Go to your local electrical suppliers, Maplins, CPC, Farnell or RS as all are cheaper than a chandlery).
Dave
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ccscott49
Active member
Re: Heat shrink...
I've always had problems obtaining heat shrink with glue, I normally liberate some from the rig, but you say maplins have it? I'll get my brother to obtain some.
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I've always had problems obtaining heat shrink with glue, I normally liberate some from the rig, but you say maplins have it? I'll get my brother to obtain some.
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tome
New member
Re: Heat shrink...
Colin
You can get black, yellow, blue, red or white adhesive lined heatshrink from RS <A target="_blank" HREF=http://rswww.com>http://rswww.com</A> or page 1-338 of their catalogue. They also supply clear adhesive lined which (as you probably know) is useful for labelling cables.
Regards
Tom
Colin
You can get black, yellow, blue, red or white adhesive lined heatshrink from RS <A target="_blank" HREF=http://rswww.com>http://rswww.com</A> or page 1-338 of their catalogue. They also supply clear adhesive lined which (as you probably know) is useful for labelling cables.
Regards
Tom
ccscott49
Active member
Re: Heat shrink...
Thanks, Tom, I'll order some up and get it sent!
Colin.
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Thanks, Tom, I'll order some up and get it sent!
Colin.
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Gunfleet
New member
adhesive lined heat shrink...
Is the point of the adhesive to make the joints waterproof?
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Is the point of the adhesive to make the joints waterproof?
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ccscott49
Active member
Re: adhesive lined heat shrink...
Yes.
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Yes.
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Gunfleet
New member
Re: yes
In my (non-engineer) ignorance I had developed this extremely complicated technique where I would slip some heat shrink over the cable I was joining, then crimp, then shrink the bottom of the heat shrink, then mix up some epoxy, syringe it into the tube formed and when it had cured heat shrink the lot. It took hours! I feel like crying.
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In my (non-engineer) ignorance I had developed this extremely complicated technique where I would slip some heat shrink over the cable I was joining, then crimp, then shrink the bottom of the heat shrink, then mix up some epoxy, syringe it into the tube formed and when it had cured heat shrink the lot. It took hours! I feel like crying.
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tome
New member
Re: yes
John
If it's any consolation I spent an entire afternoon boring out some SS penny washers to give me 16mm clearance for the rudder pintles on my previous boat. I broke several bits in the drill and the drill itself burnt out in the end.
When I walked up to the chandlers later on they had 16mm washers in stock for 32p each - I only needed 5!
As they say, education is expensive!
Tom
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John
If it's any consolation I spent an entire afternoon boring out some SS penny washers to give me 16mm clearance for the rudder pintles on my previous boat. I broke several bits in the drill and the drill itself burnt out in the end.
When I walked up to the chandlers later on they had 16mm washers in stock for 32p each - I only needed 5!
As they say, education is expensive!
Tom
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Gunfleet
New member
tool for the job
Education is expensive, and sometimes the alternative is cheap. I recently had new battery cables made up for 2 batteries and a new common to the starter motor. 4 cables, all about 4ft long and one 2 ft long. They were done by a professional auto electrician, were beautifully made to exactly the right length and cost under £50 for the lot. That's a tenner less than the cheapest large diameter cable crimper I could find!
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Education is expensive, and sometimes the alternative is cheap. I recently had new battery cables made up for 2 batteries and a new common to the starter motor. 4 cables, all about 4ft long and one 2 ft long. They were done by a professional auto electrician, were beautifully made to exactly the right length and cost under £50 for the lot. That's a tenner less than the cheapest large diameter cable crimper I could find!
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ean_p
Well-known member
Think that I'd disagree with you here Tom.......almost without exception all quality large capacity wet industrial/traction battery banks come with soldered connections, not only on the terminal leads but also on the inter cell connectors.......as a rule the presence of 'crimped' cables tends to suggest lesser quality batts.......ie the best by Chloride are all sweated.....those by say Varta.....crimped.....if money were no object then Chloride are the cells of choice.
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ccscott49
Active member
I hate to disagree, again.....but crimped connections are superior where there is a chance of vibration or corrosion (ie. salt water enviroment) Wet industrial/traction batteries are not normally subjected to this kind of treatment. Here on the rig, all soldered connections on standby battery banks were replaced with crimped connections quite a few years ago, on the instructions of Norske Veritas. So I would tend towards that solution, in fact I am in the process of replacing all my battery leads, but the crimping pliers are now back with their owner, as I've left Barcelona!! Bugger! Wasn't quite finished!
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tome
New member
Ean
I have no problem with your alternative view, but basing it on a comparison of what a couple of manufacturers do is a bit dodgy IMHO. The facts as I understand them are complex, but this is what it broadly comes down to.
1 Soldered joints are ok provided they are done properly, but this requires some skill and there are dangers as demonstrated by an earlier post which described the way to create a guaranteed dry joint. They are better suited to larger cables in a marine environment, but even when done properly there is a danger of solder wicking up the conductor and creating a rigid tail which is prone to stress and breakage. They have the disadvantage that they will break down under heat and are prone to corrosion. They are vulnerable to vibration unless provided with additional mechanical support.
2 Crimped joints are formed by a cold welding process. They should only be done with a controlled cycle tool. The crimping process forms an air-tight seal and is highly resistant to vibration and heat. A repeatable and reliable joint is guaranteed provided the correct tool is used in combination with the correct sizes of connector and wire.
It's the availability of cheap and unsuitable crimping tools and connectors which is responsible for the downside in crimped terminations. A proper controlled cycle tool (one which must complete its cycle before it can be opened again) costs around £60 but is essential to do the job properly.
It's not just the Offshore industry that specifies crimped connections. Boeing is currently undertaking a replacement of soldered connectors on the MD80 PA system with a crimped replacement after finding excessive corrosion was grounding the aircraft. In the automotive industry, a proposal for a new Automotive Controller specifies that "Each wire terminal shall be solderless...All terminal connectors should be crimped using a controlled-cycle type crimp tool."
Regards
Tom
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I have no problem with your alternative view, but basing it on a comparison of what a couple of manufacturers do is a bit dodgy IMHO. The facts as I understand them are complex, but this is what it broadly comes down to.
1 Soldered joints are ok provided they are done properly, but this requires some skill and there are dangers as demonstrated by an earlier post which described the way to create a guaranteed dry joint. They are better suited to larger cables in a marine environment, but even when done properly there is a danger of solder wicking up the conductor and creating a rigid tail which is prone to stress and breakage. They have the disadvantage that they will break down under heat and are prone to corrosion. They are vulnerable to vibration unless provided with additional mechanical support.
2 Crimped joints are formed by a cold welding process. They should only be done with a controlled cycle tool. The crimping process forms an air-tight seal and is highly resistant to vibration and heat. A repeatable and reliable joint is guaranteed provided the correct tool is used in combination with the correct sizes of connector and wire.
It's the availability of cheap and unsuitable crimping tools and connectors which is responsible for the downside in crimped terminations. A proper controlled cycle tool (one which must complete its cycle before it can be opened again) costs around £60 but is essential to do the job properly.
It's not just the Offshore industry that specifies crimped connections. Boeing is currently undertaking a replacement of soldered connectors on the MD80 PA system with a crimped replacement after finding excessive corrosion was grounding the aircraft. In the automotive industry, a proposal for a new Automotive Controller specifies that "Each wire terminal shall be solderless...All terminal connectors should be crimped using a controlled-cycle type crimp tool."
Regards
Tom
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