Battery chargers

[zoidberg]

Rummaging through my various bits 'n pieces in search of some 'electric string' of a pleasing colour, I discover I have one each of the following:

Note this one does NOT have a lithium setting.

I'm wondering what's to choose betweeen them? I have a non-smart alternator ( which is probably quite appropriate! )

.

 

[lustyd]

If you have lithium then use the ctek to charge the engine battery and don’t fot the fet.

 

[lustyd]

Not really relevant here though if OP has lithium (I can only assume since he specifically mentioned it) and these two devices

 

[PaulRainbow]

The future, especially for places that get very cold in the winter like America/Canada/ Russia and China and most of the world. It will save tow trucks and Tesla's getting intimate in places like New York.

This isn't Practical Tesla Owners forum though.

The OP has a 27ft sailboat in the UK.

Unless some radical changes are made to sodium batteries, they are not suitable for leisure boats.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Lets wait and see. CATL the biggest Lithium battery manufacturer in the world are re-tooling for Sodium. Perhaps this multi billion turnover company have got it wrong and I think Rainbow Marine Batteries needs to give them a nod and a wink and email them and put them right.

Sodium are fine for certain applications, such as big solar installations, but not for leisure boats. Leisure boat use for any type of battery is a drop in the battery ocean so big companies are not going to gear their manufacturing process for such a small market segment.

Didn't take you long (after your latest ban) to return to you unpleasant, sarcastic self.

Lithium should not be charged at 0 degrees centigrade or has to use a heater mat to get over this inefficient chemistry. Taking power out of the battery to heat its self so it can be charged is ridiculous, and having a BMS to shut the charging down, if its to cold is comical. As I always sum these things up," that's progress for you"

So, it got cold during the night and the battery temperature is too low to safely charge them. The Sun is shining brightly now but the solar array can't charge the batteries because they are too cold. Leaving them sitting there without using the available power to charge them is what would be ridiculous. A sensible system would use a little power to raise the battery temperature and then use the solar yield to replace that charge, plus charge the batteries up.

Having the BMS stop charging if it's too cold is not comical at all, it's protecting the batteries, to do otherwise would be stupid.

As always, i sum these comments up as "failure to understand the technology and how a good system works.

 

[Trident]

Oh dear - look who's back, back again.. Shane-ey's back ... and wrong as usual

Not CATL are not re-tooling for Sodium - one of the benefits of sodium is that it uses all the same machinery as lithium by the way, but they are adding sodium production lines as are most battery manufacturers, not replacing lithium. Why wouldn't they . Just as 48v systems are becoming very popular so manufacturers are doing 48V packs and BMS etc as well rather than replacing 12v. No one is going to stop making profitable lines good or bad (good in this case) - they still make Sarin gas you know!

Sodium is not going to change the boating world - LifePo4 has - I mean it really has especially for those of us that cruise long term. I would say LiFePo and Starlink are the two most game changing developments in cruising since the autopilot .

I've fitted hundreds of these batteries, made hundreds myself etc - and not one has ever been below 0 degrees whilst charging. On my own boat I checked the 12 temp sensors on my pack the morning the marina hit -6 and inside the nice internal battery compartment it was 8 degrees !! For those heading to seriously cold places a nice heat pad does the job perfectly at little or no cost to the battery charge state / rate

 

[Trident]

Oh and maybe you should apologise to Paul for trying to defame his business on Cruiser forum after being banned from here.

 

[lustyd]

Oh and maybe you should apologise to Paul for trying to defame him business on Cruiser forum after being banned from here.

Literally nobody would take notice of that, I doubt Paul is worried give his reputation

 

[zoidberg]

Thanks, 'lustyd', for that. I don't have lithium - yet - on this li'l ould project boat. I'd fitted 'pre-loved' AGMs x3 and thought to go with the Victron Argofet plus some Victron MPPT charge controllers for the oodles of sunshine the Global Warming Warriors promised us.

I'd hoped I'd get the boat afloat and working with the AGMs, the Argofet and the simple factory-fit alternator, then look around to figure out what else - if anything - I need ( want ) to do.... but along came all the excitement about Lithium and its miracles.

What I really need is a 'sympatico' marine 'lecky nearby who'd come, peer and poke, then sit down with a pot of coffee and me, and hack out a 'Best Practice' plan.

 

[zoidberg]

To most of the above....

My Original Post was, as usual, seeking guidance information on a topic where I do not have the requisite knowledge.

More than half the responses were irrelevant and querulous, and simply a waste of my time and pixels.

My thanks to the couple of responders with some depth of knowledge offered. My query, however, remains....

 

[Trident]

Silly Billy, I dare say you cruise where it is warm and I dare say if you were going to cruise the Baltic in winter you would not be so confident about lithium but would spend all your time going from one mind numbing marina to the next, for shore power.
Google....Jan 2024 Chicago. Tesla's broken down every where due to the cold weather and lithium batteries. There is none as blind and none as deaf as those who refuse to see or hear.

I've cruised the Baltic, Scotland, UK , the Mediterranean and all point between all year round and had no issues what so ever thanks.

Why would i worry about charging my batteries in cold conditions when if I am cruising on board I will be heating the boat anyway? Do you suppose I let the boat go below freezing when using it? When not using it the solar gain to the batteries vastly outweighs the tiny current for a heat pad (not that its needed in my boat as I have the batteries inside and as I said its 8 degrees inside when -6 outside)

Wrong as always

To most of the above....

My Original Post was, as usual, seeking guidance information on a topic where I do not have the requisite knowledge.

More than half the responses were irrelevant and querulous, and simply a waste of my time and pixels.

My thanks to the couple of responders with some depth of knowledge offered. My query, however, remains....

Apologies for feeding the troll.

if you don't yet have LFP batteries then alongside buying them why not just spend £100 more and get a Victron Smart charger with LFP application - you could sell your two existing pieces of kit above for more than that will cost you and then have no worries or extra wiring to do.

 

[lustyd]

I don't have lithium - yet - on this li'l ould project boat.

Then fit both and forget it unless and until you do decide to fit lithium. Those ctek are nice chargers and the argofet is great too.
Obviously that would need changing if you move to lithium but best go sailing with what you have until then

 

[PaulRainbow]

Oh and maybe you should apologise to Paul for trying to defame him business on Cruiser forum after being banned from here.

Hadn't seen it until now. He posted that exact post on here, then got banned and it was removed.

Yes, i have no landline, not had one for about 15 years. The number is on the website, my address is there, even has a map to it. Dozens of people on here have met me and/or had work done by me.

Who is Shanemax ? Or who is Shaz77, his other user account ?

Sooner the mods give him his lifetime ban the better, IMO.

 

[Trident]

Hadn't seen it until now. He posted that exact post on here, then got banned and it was removed.

Yes, i have no landline, not had one for about 15 years. The number is on the website, my address is there, even has a map to it. Dozens of people on here have met me and/or had work done by me.

Who is Shanemax ? Or who is Shaz77, his other user account ?

Sooner the mods give him his lifetime ban the better, IMO.

As I said on the other site - who in trade has a landline now ? Why pay for an answerphone to say "sorry I'm out working on a boat" when they can just call direct to a mobile ... the sad levels some go to for attention eh. I'm sure your apology will be forthcoming

 

[lustyd]

You've not posted a single thing that's on topic, and now are attacking a well respected forum member. I suggest having a good think about how you're coming accross.

 

[Shaz77]

Thanks, 'lustyd', for that. I don't have lithium - yet - on this li'l ould project boat. I'd fitted 'pre-loved' AGMs x3 and thought to go with the Victron Argofet plus some Victron MPPT charge controllers for the oodles of sunshine the Global Warming Warriors promised us.

I'd hoped I'd get the boat afloat and working with the AGMs, the Argofet and the simple factory-fit alternator, then look around to figure out what else - if anything - I need ( want ) to do.... but along came all the excitement about Lithium and its miracles.

What I really need is a 'sympatico' marine 'lecky nearby who'd come, peer and poke, then sit down with a pot of coffee and me, and hack out a 'Best Practice' plan.

If you don't have litium yet you could be seen as a committing apostasy or being a non believer and suffer stoning to death.

 

[zoidberg]

I've been accused of all those and worse - and been shot at by professionals - but nothing was quite so painful as being tongue-lashed here by a troupe of keyboard warriors!




Oh, and it's quite a long time since I was last stoned...



.

 

[Trident]

So Solar gain in the Baltic and N. Scotland in the 6 hour days in the winter, with snow covering solar panels all the time and overcast conditions is good enough. PULL THE OTHER ONE. I would say anyone on here who is slightly intelligent knows you are telling "Porky Pies" I would like to say to you, it was a good try, but i am afraid it wasn't.

Did I say winter? Of course not .. Who would cruise the baltic in winter? If they are then they will be regularly going to marinas for safe shelter where they can top up their batteries at their leisure when their LFP pack is nice and warm thanks to the cabin heater .

What i did say is that on my boat at -6 outside its fine to charge inside and that if you are leaving the boat with solar on where one might worry that the LFP batteries might be charged when temps are really low , I said the solar gain - the amount the batteries charge from whatever solar there is , would give more than heat pads take, so its fine anyway.

You can read but you seem incapable of understanding and applying what is said to you - hopefully the extra explanation will help you and you can finally learn something. You might like to think of your own words and explain how the LFP would be charged by the solar in sub zero conditions when there is "with snow covering solar panels all the time and overcast conditions" - if insufficient light reaches the solar panels they wont charge and so the LFP will not be harmed but charge in sub zero will they?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Sorry lets stick to the facts.....there is no address, no proprietors name and the map takes you to a very vague location with no signage giving directions. There is just a send me your email address and query and I will get back to you. I want to know who I am dealing with, don't you.
Mr Paul Rainbow you must learn this. As Rambo famously said "you always draw first blood" with your comments and then don't like it when I point out the facts. Have a nice day.

If we are sticking to facts, the screenshot below, from my website contact page clearly shows the company name, telephone number and postal address.

The website is a registered domain and sending a message using the contact form comes through to a company address, which gets a speedy response from said address. The address is not on the website as it encourages spammers.

Most people who want work doing on their boat do indeed want to know who they are dealing with, that's easy to do, phone or send a message using the contact form, arrange a meeting and discuss what's needed.

But you know all of this, you are just trolling.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Sorry lets stick to the facts.....there is no address, no proprietors name and the map takes you to a very vague location with no signage giving directions. There is just a send me your email address and query and I will get back to you. I want to know who I am dealing with, don't you.
Mr Paul Rainbow you must learn this. As Rambo famously said "you always draw first blood" with your comments and then don't like it when I point out the facts. Have a nice day.

Just posted my company name, postal address and telephone number, your turn.