Batteries and the environment

[pcatterall]

With the anticipated demand for batteries for vehicles and the need to replace them every few years what is the environmental consequence ( sea bed mining etc)
we hear the fuel cells under development may be the way to power our yachts. is there no chance that they would become a more sustainable power source than batteries?

 

[Richard10002]

All this electric vehicle and similar stuff seems to be merely transferring the pollution from one place to another. The batteries are environmentally unfriendly in a variety of ways, and the electricity to charge them has to come from somewhere.

In addition, it seems that, to be carbon neutral, you just need to plant a few trees, pay someone to plant a few trees, or buy a certificate of some kind which purports to represent some kind of environmentally friendly actions.

Until all of our power comes from the sun, wind, or tides/water flows, something, somewhere, will be being burned to provide it.

 

[coopec]

Hydrogen Fuel Cells vs Lithium-ion Batteries in Electric Vehicles
Hydrogen Fuel Cells vs Lithium-ion Batteries in Electric Vehicles - FuroSystems

 

[pcatterall]

All this electric vehicle and similar stuff seems to be merely transferring the pollution from one place to another. The batteries are environmentally unfriendly in a variety of ways, and the electricity to charge them has to come from somewhere.

In addition, it seems that, to be carbon neutral, you just need to plant a few trees, pay someone to plant a few trees, or buy a certificate of some kind which purports to represent some kind of environmentally friendly actions.

Until all of our power comes from the sun, wind, or tides/water flows, something, somewhere, will be being burned to provide it.

Tree planting is certainly in vogue but, of course trees only produce oxygen and store carbon while they are alive. When they die the process is reversed so, really, there is no net gain unless we preserve the dead wood. Possibly we could make our boats with wood?

 

[Graham376]

Tree planting is certainly in vogue but, of course trees only produce oxygen and store carbon while they are alive. When they die the process is reversed so, really, there is no net gain unless we preserve the dead wood. Possibly we could make our boats with wood?

It's a circular argument in many ways. Wood can be preserved by adding resin to make mdf, chipboard, etc., (which takes polluting power and transport) but, that will also need destroying in future years and far more polluting than burning wood. How much pollution is created to scrap an old tech car and to replace it with a new battery one?

 

[ryanroberts]

There was a possibly practical small scale diesel fuel cell near the market a few years back but it disappeared into US military trials, which I don't think were particularly successful Fuel Cells Fail to Make Inroads With the Military . There are methanol ones which seem to work. The cartridge system the methanol fuel cells use makes operation very expensive, and decanting methanol in a yacht seems unwise. I think butane fuel cells scale quite well, but again that's a very impractical bulk fuel for boats.

 

[BabaYaga]

we hear the fuel cells under development may be the way to power our yachts. is there no chance that they would become a more sustainable power source than batteries?

I have heard some people even use wind power...

 

[coopec]

With the anticipated demand for batteries for vehicles and the need to replace them every few years what is the environmental consequence ( sea bed mining etc)
we hear the fuel cells under development may be the way to power our yachts. is there no chance that they would become a more sustainable power source than batteries?

Apparently "every few years " is a bit pessimistic.

Tesla's warranty covers Model 3 battery packs ‘8 years or 120,000 miles’ for long-range variants and ‘8 years or 100,000 miles’ for standard and standard range plus variants. So, based on the table above, it takes around 3.7 years for the average Joe to drive 50,000 miles. That means Tesla’s 100,000 – 120,000 mile warranty is plenty sufficient to cover 6-8 years for most typical drivers out there.