Barton Jib Track

Fire99

Fire99

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I'm sure this has been covered before a few times but humour me.

My Jib / Genoa runs through a couple of fixed eyes on the deck. I keep planning on replacing these with an adjustable track.
Are there any tips on how / where you position the tracks when replacing fixed eyes?

Cheers again..


Nik
 
MoodySabre said:
If the fixed eyes are in an average position then maybe that should be the centre point of the track.
Click to expand...

That sounds fair.. Now do you try and line the track so it's as central to the side deck as possible? Obviously the track is straight and the deck curves a bit so it's not possible to keep it perfectly central from front to back. :)
 
For the sheeting angle of a jib, take a line from the clew to the luff, meeting the luff at 90 degrees.

Extend this line aft from the clew to the deck.

In real life the optimum sheeting angle is usually a little down from this, ie car position a touch forward.

Remember a storm jib will require cars a relatively long way forward, if unable to measure genoa, jib & storm jib car positions ( or rolled equivalents apart from storm jib which will hopefully be a seperate sail ) then a longer track will of course help cover eventualities.

The lateral position, ie middle or edge of side deck, is important; in a perfect world guaged by looking at the sail and the 'slot' as it overlaps the main; too far inboard risks hooking the leach and choking the slot, too far outboard loses windward ability.

I can't think of a guide for this other than by eye...
 
Fire99 said:
I'm sure this has been covered before a few times but humour me.

My Jib / Genoa runs through a couple of fixed eyes on the deck. I keep planning on replacing these with an adjustable track.
Are there any tips on how / where you position the tracks when replacing fixed eyes?

Cheers again..


Nik
Click to expand...

I think you have to be guided by what adjustment seems to be necessary .

If the leech always seems too tight you'll need to be able to move the fairlead a good bit aft. If the leech always seem to be too open you'll need to be able to move it forward.

A bit of a lash up to experiment with first might be worth while.
Spend a day playing before drilling holes!
 
This is a Snappie - so it must be a compromise but a good improvement (I had a Snappie too). I would just do what looks OK - probably the forward end slightly in from being parallel to the centre line of the boat.

I always felt that some means of creating an adjustable mainsheet track would be good rather than the SS horse that just meant that mainsheet was always down the track.
 
Many thanks guys.. I'll try a combination of line of sight and setting each of the hank - on sails to see where the sheets should route. (ish)

:)
 
MoodySabre said:
I always felt that some means of creating an adjustable mainsheet track would be good rather than the SS horse that just meant that mainsheet was always down the track.
Click to expand...

T'is a good point. I'm going to steal a few ideas from co-racing a Squib with the mainsheet traveller setup that that has. (other than not being on the cockpit floor of course)
 
Steve Goacher (and he should know) told me to take a point 40% up the luff and draw a line from that through the clew and onto the deck. That's the spot.

A way I've used it the past is to take the sheet in your hand between the existing eye and the clew, when sailing, and try raising it and pushing it down. As you raise it the foot tightens and the leech opens and as you push it down the leech tightens and the foot bags.
When you've got the right balance you find where the sheet needs to hit the deck to achieve that and you have a point to use. Allow some extra track astern of that in case you need it and a lot more forward in case you are using roller reefing.
You can also use this method to try narrower sheeting angles or to find out where to put it to avoid rubbing the spreaders with the leech.
If your headsail is too powerful or the wind is too strong you'll need to rig a barber hauler to try the effects. I'd just wait for a less windy day.
 
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Lakesailor,

I'm probably being dim as usual but I don't get the '40% up luff then line through the clew' bit; with a high clew jib - like mine - this would be miles aft ?

I have always read 'bisect luff at 90 degrees', like the old mitre cut jibs.
 
Just quoting an expert. He probably would think your sail was cut wrong.

The other method I mentioned would work for any style of sail.
 
Well it's a Ratsey & Lapthorn sail and sets very nicely Ta !

As you know, high clew jibs allow better visibility and avoid seas breaking into the sail, though that's a situation I'm keen to avoid anyway; also known as 'Solent Cut'.

STtest2-3.jpg
 
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Seajet said:
STtest2-3.jpg
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That sheeting position looks way too far forward in that picture. Id have expected to see it sheeted to somewhere near the quarter. (or beyond :eek: )

Surely thats not at 90° to the luff

But if the telltales all lift together it's right I guess
 
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VicS said:
That sheeting position looks way too far forward in that picture. Id have expected to see it sheeted to somewhere near the quarter. (or beyond :eek: )

Surely thats not at 90° to the luff

But if the telltales all lift together it's right I guess
Click to expand...

That's the working jib, the more conventionally cut No.1 Genoa requires the cars further aft.

I did say in real life the sheeting position is usually forward of the 90 degrees line.

The sail, telltales and slot looked and look OK to me, and to Duncan Kent of Sailing Today who was helming.
 
Seajet said:
That's the working jib, the more conventionally cut No.1 Genoa requires the cars further aft.

I did say in real life the sheeting position is usually forward of the 90 degrees line.

The sail, telltales and slot looked and look OK to me, and to Duncan Kent of Sailing Today who was helming.
Click to expand...

Must be the angle of the picture then.

It's what the telltales do that counts
 
Jib sheeting

Firstly to the OP before you lash out and buy a lot of track and cars for the pulleys you can get adjustment that is useful by fitting another pulley further forward and using another additional sheet to pull the clew down simulating moving the car forward. Not so easy to simulate pulling the car back on the track but by raising the pulley above the deck say on a shackle will have same effect.
You could do like the maxi racers and have a rope through a pulley on the deck fairly well forward. On the end of this is the sheeting pulley. You lengthen this rope to raise the sheeting point or tighten this rope to lower the sheeting point. Yes another rope each side with a cleat but cheaper than tracks. They do have track but that is sideways to adjust sheeting angle to centre line but i don't imagine you need that.

The ideal sheeting position is a function of the size and shape of the jib and also to a lesser extent the conditions. This assuming you are beating to windward. If you are reaching and ease the sheet then you will want to move the sheeting forward.
The jib sheet in one rope both pulls the clew aft and down (and also less significantly towards the centre line of the boat.
So the best trick when beating to windward is to have tell tales up the forward part of the jib. You luff up slightly and note if the top tell tales show luffing first or the bottom. The top of the sail will luff first if there is not enough downward tension pulling the leach in tight. So if top luffs first move sheeting point forward.
If bottom luffs first you don't have enough pull backwards which flattens the front of the sail so sheeting point should be moved aft. An equal luff from top to bottom is the goal.
Now if you are reaching you ease the jib sheet. This has the effect of release the downward pressure first so allowing the top of the jib to fall away from the wind. You get no drive then from the top. You need to apply downward pressure to pull the top into line while maintaining the looser sheet. So you move the sheeting point further forward for best drive.
Now really ideally when reaching you want a tight jib but one which is sheeted from a point outboard of the gunwhale. A bit like the ideal for the main is sheeted down and tight but at 45 degrees to the wind.
With a jib this is difficult. Some advocate use of a pole to hold the jib out a little way while sheeted in tight against the pole. I have used another sheet attached to the gunwhale but forward of normal sheeting. This also works well.
Of course when reaching almost any sail setting works and you might say only the racers want the best out of the sails. But when beating to windward there is little margin for inefficiencies and any lack of performance means a lot longer/ slower trip or use engine. So this is where there is real value in getting it right.
Certainly when using a furling jib partially furled you must move the sheeting point forward tp keep that jib working as well as possible. It makes a good case for remotely movable sheeting points. olewill
 
Bisecting the angle between the foot and leach at the clew is a common rule of thumb.
A line drawn from 45% up the luff through the clew is another.
Neither is absolute, it depends how the sail is cut.
Either way you will want to move forwards when close reaching or beating in chop, to make the sail fuller, or back in strong breeze to allow the slot to twist open a bit more.

Don't economise with short tracks.
You may get a different sail that needs the cars moved further.
But you can always use a barber hauler to change the angle.
 
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