Barometers ?

[Skylark]

I have a chrome, Weems and Plath Endurance 85. By no means the most expensive of their range but looks and feels well made. Nice large, easy to read if ones eye sight is challenged by age.

I record Baro together with other weather observations as part of the ships log keeping routine.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I’m not knocking the very interesting contributions re homebrew fancy electronics, but for me I wonder if it’s a bit like using a digital calliper to measure out the cloth to make curtains. Or like digitally plotting the respiration rate of a patient when all I want to know is whether they’re breathing or not.
The minute changes are fascinating but when you’re on an ocean passage I’m trying to work out if knowing them is really going to make any difference.
Anyway I quite like my ornaments. The barometer and barograph keep working without any batteries or electronics. They sit there unattended (except for winding the barograph up and changing it’s paper once a week) and tell me what I need to know. In fact because of that I’m going to suggest that they might be ‘ornamental’ but they’re also ‘effective and functional’.
Each to their own, but keep an eye on exactly what you’re trying to achieve?

 

[Stemar]

I have an Aldidl weather station on board. Can't remember the last time I looked at it for the pressure, though.

A Met office app on my phone gives me the weather for the next week and a glance out of the window tells me if it's a good time to go off for a couple of hours

 

[Skylark]

drop of 2.5mb in an hour and a half. It wasn't that close.

No reason to doubt the statement that the tornado was passing close by so perhaps the sensor calibration is off or the scaling is wrong. Need a back-up aneroid to check

 

[GHA]

No reason to doubt the statement that the tornado was passing close by so perhaps the sensor calibration is off or the scaling is wrong. Need a back-up aneroid to check

If you look at the plot there was change of just short of 2mB in a few minutes, well under 2 minutes from memory though the image is too zoomed out to show that. N o way could an aneroid barometer give any useful data about that, too inaccurate as well. Tornado missed by about 100m and took out a local shopping centre instead. ?

 

[GHA]

I’m not knocking the very interesting contributions re homebrew fancy electronics, but for me I wonder if it’s a bit like using a digital calliper to measure out the cloth to make curtains. Or like digitally plotting the respiration rate of a patient when all I want to know is whether they’re breathing or not.
The minute changes are fascinating but when you’re on an ocean passage I’m trying to work out if knowing them is really going to make any difference.
Anyway I quite like my ornaments. The barometer and barograph keep working without any batteries or electronics. They sit there unattended (except for winding the barograph up and changing it’s paper once a week) and tell me what I need to know. In fact because of that I’m going to suggest that they might be ‘ornamental’ but they’re also ‘effective and functional’.
Each to their own, but keep an eye on exactly what you’re trying to achieve?

You won't want to hear this but...... ?...
that's an example of what humans do, basic psychology - your toys have been criticized by other toys so go straight into defensive mode with reason why *not* to look deep instead of what could be learned from other systems.. sorry......
"exactly what you’re trying to achieve?" - learning more, if you shut the door on anything you don't know of you'll never know what you might learn.

though lets face it, no one really needs a barometer anywhere near as much as a weather forecast these days, with such fantastic data and predictions an accurate barometer great thing to have onboard for the very few with actually do anything with the data but hardly the end of the world without. Ocean crossing without wfax or gribs is a bit silly though. I have a lovely sextant as well, it's similar, is very effective in keeping you motivated to learn much more (me anyway..) and opening up our place in the solar system but really not high up the list any more as a must have.

 

[Skylark]

................. your toys have been criticized by other toys so go straight into defensive mode with reason why *not* to look deep instead of what could be learned from other systems................

What - another quaint relic from the past that isn't really needed any more

There's room for all. Just because I choose to wear a mechanical watch and note the reading from my aneroid barometer in a paper logbook doesn't mean that I have no interest in learning new things. I've built two 7MHz transceiver kits since lockdown, both for CW only

 

[Black Sheep]

Each to their own, but keep an eye on exactly what you’re trying to achieve?

Good advice, but it's a wise (and unusual) person who fully understands their own motivations.
Mix and match from the following in different proportions:

• Need warning of imminent bad weather
• Need general idea of weather trends
• Need warning of imminent wind shifts
• Want items that enhance the appearance of the boat
• Want to do things the Proper Way
• Want to learn about and understand the weather
• Enjoy playing with new devices and technologies
• Want instruments that don't depend on electricity
• Want instruments that don't depend on manual intervention
• Want instruments that are robust in a salty wet environment
• Want to minimise dependence on communications gear
• Enjoy taking the traditional approach
• Enjoy the routine of regular log keeping
• Want to be able to integrate information across sources
• Want to keep everything separate - one instrument for one purpose
• Want to minimise expenditure
• Want to spend where appropriate; don't want to skimp

(where "need", "want", and "enjoy" are actually interchangeable)

And put all of those into the different sailing environments (day sailing; coastal hopping; offshore passage making; ocean crossing) and boats (motor or sail; large or small; traditional or modern) and you'll find a whole gamut of different answers, each perfectly valid

So I'm happy that everyone in this thread is probably choosing the right option for themselves. Whether they are being honest with themselves about their own motivations... well, who can say?

 

[GHA]

There's room for all.

Absolutely, 100%, don't think I've ever said any different, each to their own. The point of the post was that the majority of opinions on here have next to no basis in any logical assessment, just masses of conformation bias and resistance to any change, little to do with the real world. No doubt the age group has a lot to do with it as well, old heels dig in much deeper ?.... so easy to see when it's usually negative & defensive - "my way is better, don't need that new stuff" and not inquisitive to learn more - "interesting, new things do a lot but I'm actually not that bothered to go further, happy with what I have"

Blue touch paper burning brightly now..... ?

 

[johnalison]

A barometer was very useful in the ‘70s when we started cruising. One invariably missed the shipping forecast or CG one and a steady barometer was a good way of persuading the family that it was worth setting out. In truth, I don’t think it made much difference to our plans, but occasionally it could tell you that a low was coming faster or slower than forecast. I have a barograph on a Casio watch that works well, but haven’t worn it for a year or two. On the boat there is a nice brass one on the bulkhead because the clock would look lonely without it, and tapping it gives the skipper something to do.

 

[adwuk]

That's the one that we have too Puts its readings out on the NMEA 2000 network and is visible on the instrument displays. The readings get logged every hour. We have an old brass one on the main bulkhead and it gets calibrated against the electronic one!

 

[Graham376]

If you look at the plot there was change of just short of 2mB in a few minutes, well under 2 minutes from memory though the image is too zoomed out to show that. N o way could an aneroid barometer give any useful data about that, too inaccurate as well. Tornado missed by about 100m and took out a local shopping centre instead. ?

We were in the yard the day those two tornadoes came through, luckily one either side of the yard. With the speed they appeared and unpredictable course I think MK1 eyeball would have been the only chance of possible avoidance at sea, not a barometer.

 

[capnsensible]

I like being able to log trends of a barometer and use that to interpret weather changes that may well happen. I was taught well.

But I also like just being able to stick my phone on and look at windfinder or whatever.

I don't flap though if I'm out of phone range of land. ?

 

[tudorsailor]

I made a barometer from an Arduino and printed the enclosure. https://forums.ybw.com/data/attachments/23/23168-1ecea0afe59c6d401bd91c0686c0bbc6.jpg

T

 

[vas]

That's the one that we have too Puts its readings out on the NMEA 2000 network and is visible on the instrument displays. The readings get logged every hour. We have an old brass one on the main bulkhead and it gets calibrated against the electronic one!

+1

• teensy hooked digital one, sending data on N2K bus, presented on GMI10s and mainly Maretron DSM250, through that on influxdb every minute and grafana.
• I do have a nice old brass baro on a bulkhead that took me 5yrs to figure out why the needle wasn't doing much (the adjustment screw was missing!) Last year screw fitted and adjusted according to what the digital one says...
• latest aquired garmin Quatix watch has built in baro.

End result is I rarely bother to check what they are reporting, hopefully this year with the grafana registering all data, I stand a chance of actually following baro data and figuring out when things are going to turn sour. OTOH there's always windy.com

 

[GHA]

I like being able to log trends of a barometer and use that to interpret weather changes that may well happen. I was taught well.

though...... even after the event having accurate wind and pressure data logged every second - finding patterns in pressure other than very broad brush stroke frontal systems on the way isn't possible imho. David Burch's 456 rule holds up pretty good and is easy to remember but even then not a done deal and vague in timing - gonna blow up a bit in a bit...probably..

Barometer as Forecaster The general guideline we have used over the years we denote as “4-5-6,” meaning that when you are in fair weather to begin with, any pressure drop of 4 or 5 mb in a 6-hour period is a definite warning of the possible approach of a Low or frontal system (Table 9.2-1). We proposed that guideline 25 years ago in the first version of the Weather Trainer software, and have not come up with a better one yet. It is not gospel. Pressure can go up or down for multiple reasons. It is simply a way to convey numerically a pay attention rate for pressure drops.

Burch, David. Modern Marine Weather: From Time Honored Maritime Traditions to the Latest Technology, 2nd Edition . Starpath Publications. Kindle Edition.

Very similar to a sextant imho, *far* more accurate predictions available for little cost, but saying that, like a sextant once more imho a barometer can have much more value in putting you in touch with the real world showing live the changes predicted by the wfax/grib. And like a sextant the old mechanical ones are prettier than a microprocessor or gps. Plenty reason on it's own if that's what you like.

 

[dune16]

I've never had one on either boat. I rely on technology (data always from multiple sources)..... rightly or wrongly

 

[john_morris_uk]

I've never had one on either boat. I rely on technology (data always from multiple sources)..... rightly or wrongly

My problem is that
a) I’ve done an ocean passage where my main source of weather was a weatherfax sytem that got water in it and never worked.
b) I’m not sure my budget runs to a sat phone and data downloads when I’m out of mobile phone signal.

I am very much interested in modern tech but I’ve got bitter memories of it going wrong and when you’re 1000 miles plus from land there’s something to be said for KISS even if my barograph is quaint old fashioned and ornamental.
Shout all you like about conformation bias but I have thought about this with an open a mind as I can muster.

 

[[2574]]

I’ve both aneroid and digital. Why not? I’ve also a mechanical Schatz ship’s clock. I like to hear it ticking. (John you will remember that you hated the bells.) I’ve also an atomic clock jobbie that is accurate to half a second in a billion years or some such nonsense.

 

[GHA]

My problem is that
a) I’ve done an ocean passage where my main source of weather was a weatherfax sytem that got water in it and never worked.
b) I’m not sure my budget runs to a sat phone and data downloads when I’m out of mobile phone signal.

I am very much interested in modern tech but I’ve got bitter memories of it going wrong and when you’re 1000 miles plus from land there’s something to be said for KISS even if my barograph is quaint old fashioned and ornamental.
Shout all you like about conformation bias but I have thought about this with an open a mind as I can muster.

Was it Blondie Hasler who threw his barometer over the side finding it made no difference other than a day or so worry waiting for the storm to hit? I certainly wouldn't like to sail without one, plotting the pressure data is miles better and fascinating, but thinking it makes much of a difference is kidding yourself imho.