Barge Racing - Tom Cunliffe

[Chris_Robb]

Following the recent seamanship article in Sept YM, I am not sure I would agree with Tom Cunliffe.

The incident he related was during a barge race, when the barge was on port tack, and a small 30 ft yacht was seen on starboard with a woman at the helm (staring straight ahead). The barge skipper deliberated that he hoped that the stand-on boat would give way out of politeness because the barges were racing.

As a collision course becam evident, the barge skipper still held coarse, until they had to do an emergancy tack, when they were very close to the 'target'.

Tom Cunliffe lists several col regs which would back his view that a polite skipper on the stand on boat would use to justify the stand-on boat altering course.

Do you agree with Tom that the barge should have been given right of way because he was racing.

Would you as barge skipper have acked earlier and adjusted to pass (close) astern of the stand-on yacht?

 

[davel]

I read the article but interpreted it slightly differently.
By my reading, the skipper recognised that he was the give way boat and did, in fact, give way - albeit at the last moment. I tooke his point to be that a polite and considerate skipper on the stand on boat would have given way and made life a lot simpler for the barge - and wouldn't that have been a nice thing to to do. ie behaving "correctly" as opposed to insisting on your rights. I don't believe the article asserted that the barge should have had right of way because he was racing.

Dave L.

 

[hillyarder]

I,m racing

Coming into Cho harbour. Off east head there must have been 200 dinghies of all shapes and sizes. some going very fast, some very slow. we were in a hillyard 9 tonner which does nothing quick. as a safety precaution i lowered sail and put on the engine. being a dinghy sailor i had a fair idea what most boats were trying to do. i managed to thread my way through most of the fleet. stopping, reversing, turning this way and that to avoid dinghies from every quarter. the colregs have little meaning when in the middle of a dinghy race. especially in a heavy slow old boat. as the last of the dinghies were being approached 2 solo,s wer heading towards me, both on starboard. one was to windward and was being luffed. the chap being luffed shouted at me 'starboard'. i replied that i had no where to go. to starboard were three dinghies coming up fast. behind me was a motorboat and a smaller yacht. i could not turn to port as i was on the edge of the channel and the depth alarm was going mad. again he shouted starboard and then said 'i,m racing'. after an hour and a half of dinghy dodging, this last remark was, i felt, superfluous. he became abusive and told me he was in the right. i told him i was in a channel and had no where to go. i told him i was big enough and that he could possibly miss me if he wanted, or he could hit me if he liked. he shouted some abuse and to my shame i shouted some back. piss off idiot, i said. this did not make me feel any better. going over the incident again i tried to see how i could have done better. but still i cannot. what would others do?

 

[PhatBuoy]

I agree with you. Tom was not stating that a racing yacht has right of way, purely that it would have been much better seamanship for the small vessel to take action on seeing the barge involved in a race. If you go walking in a public park do you walk across a pitch where a game of football is being played just because you have a right to do so? No, you avoid the game and your walk is not spoilt one bit. Yachties should do the same. Although as one of my previous posts stated sometimes 'racers' do think they have right of way at all times!

 

[PhatBuoy]

Re: I,m racing

What would I do? Shout piss off idiot much earlier (and louder) than you actually did! You behaved with courtesy and common sense. Luckily I'm sure, most of the fleet would have shown their appreciation of your actions. There's always the odd w@?ker!

 

[Chris_Stannard]

There is, what seems to be a forgotten, way of avoiding a port starboard incident. I leaaarned it many years ago, from a very successful racing sailor, and used it to my advantage when I raced.

If you pay off a couple of degrees early and ease your sheets a fraction you gain boat speed, as you cross close behind the other boat you bring your sheets in and you get a lift from his backwash. This puts you back in roughly the same place that you would have been but you have been going a bit faster, so there is no overall loss. I recognise that a barge would not get a lift of a smallish yacht but the system does work.


Chris Stannard

 

[Cornishman]

There are problems arising from the stand on vessel giving way; it can lead to confusion if it is not done early enough. However, having said that, I would always keep out of the way of vessels racing if at all possible.
On appointment as Bosun on the STV Tectona (68 foot gaff ketch) at Plymouth School of Maritime Studies the Old Man showed me a set of notes from the original builder/owner in which he wrote that it would be no use anybody calling for water whether they were in the right or the wrong as she was such a pig to tack he wouldn't even contemplate it! He issued this warning to all other skippers whenever he raced. He often flew flag 'D' but I wondered if anyone understood it.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Yes I agree - having seen that the small boat (perhaps single handed) was not giving way, then bearing off a point would have been far better. Instead he took it down to the line, and tacked at the last second, thus creating a situation of danger where the stand on boat may have taken last minute action.

I think therefore the barge skipper was guilty of poor judgement, and being a poor racing skipper.

I felt the tone of the essay very much started out saying I'm racing so get out of my way.

If the stand on boat was single handed, as was the implication, then the barge skipper had NO RIGHT AT ALL to expect it to tack.

TC has gone down a few pegs in my book now.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re:Hayling Island Sailing Club

I used to race in that solo fleet - bet I know who it was!

Seriously - you should write to the commodore, as this kind of behavour is just rediculous.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Having seen that the small boat (perhaps single handed) was not giving way, then bearing off a point would have been far better. Instead he took it down to the line, and tacked at the last second, thus creating a situation of danger where the stand on boat may have taken last minute action.

I think therefore the barge skipper was guilty of poor judgement, and being a poor racing skipper.

I felt the tone of the essay very much started out saying I'm racing so get out of my way.

If the stand on boat was single handed, as was the implication, then the barge skipper had NO RIGHT AT ALL to expect it to tack.

TC has gone down a few pegs in my book now.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Agreed that the article didn't set out that the barge had the right of way, It did set out to assert the I'm racing - so GET OUT OF THE WAY.

In anycase I think the skipper made a bad judgement and should have bourne away a point to miss the other boat. As it tunred out he had to tack - which was the worst possible situation and also dangerous.

Nil Point to TC

 

[hillyarder]

Re:Hayling Island Sailing Club

I must admit it really did bother me. I have raced and I know what its like, but there really was nothing I could do. When he called starboard on me I was amazed. Earlier on in the day we were on starboard but still had to bear away to avoid a commercial lorry ferry. I wondered what would he have thought if I had called starboard. Even if I had been racing I dont fancy being in the right and smashed to bits by thousands of tons of ferry.

 

[Guest]

Tectona ....

Bloody hell - thats a name from the proverbial !!!

I did my cadetship at Plymouth and sailed on her ... did my survival course by jumping of her in Plymouth sound in March !!!! Something I shall never forget !!!!!

If I remember right ... if you didn't watch out when taking on freshwater - it overflowed onto Bosuns bunk !!

 

[Guest]

The Col Regs are ambiguous actually and this has been argued by far higher authorities than us .....

They stipulate stand-on vessels duties and it actually holds them harder to it than the regs they replaced back in the 70's. BUT they also have opt-outs that tend to confuse if not taken in context.

As a Seaman Officer and having like many had to sit through examinations on these regs ... I in fact fell into the trap of one examination with old regs and next with new regs !!!!

I always remember one question put by the DoT examiner .... you see a tug and tow ahead which is longer than xxxx metres etc. You are stand-on vessel --- What do you do ?
I answered that as pewr rules unless he was showing another sitgnal to indicate difficulty to manoeuvre etc. I was supposed to stand-on and regard him as another vessel.... BUT that in the act of good seamanship, I would take bold and early action to alter course and not impede his passage - reason being it was easier for me to alter course than for him.
The examiner was very happy with the answer and remarked that practical judgement can in fact prevail over the written word in some circumstances.

Therefore in yachts I tend to the same philosophy ... if someones racing, I try to keep out of their way ... whether its a Sigma or Thames Barge or what .... actually there is one exception ---- Sunsail flotillas - why ? Because most of the time its for Sunsail only - not part of an event etc. and I'm fed up with the attitude of some of their boats and behaviour.

 

[Guest]

How can you tell if a boat is S/Handed ????

 

[Guest]

Different strokes ...

In the UK I tend to thread my way through taking care not to embarrass or make boats lose wind etc. as I pass across / through a racing fleet .... often meaning that col regs are ignored ! But I think that most racers would apreciate the action.

In Tallinn where I sail and race ... it is accepted practice that boats NOT racing stand-OFF from racing boats - stopping if necessary and not cross or impede them in any way. If you can thread through with care and not cause any problem you are free to do so, but you must make all actions well clear and bold / early .... the truth is that little time is lost waiting for a clear stretch to pass through and everyone goes home relaxed and not pent up with rage !!!!

 

[Trevethan]

Re:Hayling Island Sailing Club

It'd very clear here. The guy in the dinghy is a prat.

You are large (ish) vessel, under power, but with restricted ability to manouver due to teh channel and proximity of other vessels.

It was up to teh racier to change course rather than yell starboard at you repeatedly, which really does no good at all.. idiot.

Had it been me I'd have had the deckwash hose out and been sending lots of water in his direction once he closed within say 10 yards.

 

[philmarks]

Re: I,m racing

I draw 9 feet and when going up round the Winner and past East Head it's even tighter for me. Must say I was surprised by TCs stance. I'm going to have to start using a day signal or D flag.

 

[hillyarder]

Re: Different strokes ...

I completely agree, I tried this approach and to be fair most of the racers I avoided either shouted thanks or waved an arm. Like in everything else, it only takes one fool to spoil it.

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: I,m racing

You did all you could
and your comments were provoked.
The guy is obviously a self important idiot giving racers a bad name.

You sail on the white bits, anchor on the blue bits, get drunk on the yellow bits