Bardsey Sound Tides

ghostlymoron

ghostlymoron

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 Apr 2005
Messages
9,889
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
I'm confused. My Western Almanac (2005) states 'passage at slack water' -0015 HW or +0035 LW Holyhead whereas my PBO small craft almanac (2007) gives HW Dover +0300 for northgoing. Conversely my Lundy and Irish Sea Pilot (second edition) states that the NW stream begins at +0500 Dover.
I'm planning to go from Pwllheli to Holyhead next Tuesday (weather permitting) and need to know which if any is correct.
 
Slack water at Bardsey Sound does not coincide with HW or LW, that may be causing your problem. From Ralph Morris, "Cruising Anglesey & adjoining waters" (the current bible for the area);

Slack water = Dover -01.00 (and Dover is within 15 mins of Liverpool)

HW & LW = Dover -03.05

The Sound isn't the only problem, keep clear of the Tripods just past Braich-y-Pwll as well! Oh, and the N & S Stacks off Holyhead can be nasty too!
 
.


Searush is quite correct as usual. IIRC the pilot guides do tell you that an eddy forms NW between the offshore rock (sorry forgot its name - no book handy) and the mainland before the main stream turns. You will probably need to make use of this in order to get through the Stacks on the last of the flood.

The current weather forecast on Windguru looks ideal Mild/Mod Easterly which unfortunately means thats not the weather you are likely to get :(

Try really hard to avoid the Sound, the Tripods or the Stacks in any F5+ wind over tide conditions. They all bite.



.
 
For "seat of the pants" planning Bardsey slack water is roughly same time as high and low Holyhead. As already said slack water does not correspond with high or low water (similar to Menai Straits). Bardsey Sound is OK if you are running with the tide as long as the wind is too (recently went S at 2/3rds ebb on springs with F6 behind us, very comfortable ride) - be much more cautious if wind against tide. From slack at LW Holyhead +35 you will have 6 hours of favourable tide to take you up to Holyhead from Bardsey and if your timing is good the tide will be slackening as you reach the Stacks which otherwise will give you a very unpleasant experience! Loads of fishing pots on the way up from Pwllheli ....
 
ghostlymoron said:
I'm confused. My Western Almanac (2005) states 'passage at slack water' -0015 HW or +0035 LW Holyhead whereas my PBO small craft almanac (2007) gives HW Dover +0300 for northgoing. Conversely my Lundy and Irish Sea Pilot (second edition) states that the NW stream begins at +0500 Dover.
I'm planning to go from Pwllheli to Holyhead next Tuesday (weather permitting) and need to know which if any is correct.
Click to expand...
The definitive from Reeds, as you say, Slack Bardsey = Holyhead -0015 HW or +0035 LW.
My rule of thumb is leave Pwllheli (given that it takes 3 hours to get to Bardsey) an hour and a half ish before lo water pwllheli
Belfield says
Pwllheli for next Tuesday
02.51 LO 1m
08.00 HI 4.2m
15.05 LO 1.1m
20.11 HI 4.5m
Holyhead
03.53 LO
10.06 HI
16.04 LO
22.14 HI
So Reeds says slack at 03.53 + .35 = 04.28
my rule 02.51 + 1.30 = 04.21
You can catch the early flood by going between Carreg Ddu and the mainland and keep about 20yds off shore, but only in settled conditions! I did it in June and kept close to all the way round the end of the Lleyn, literally 20 yds. BUT you are going to have to go in the early hours and dark to catch the tides.
Stu
PS years ago I went thru following mates in the early hours, couldnt see a thing except their stern lights and the radar showing the shore. We had got the times all wrong and went thru with the flood in full flow, 13kts over the ground, 15 ft waves sneaking up from astern, it was wild! If it had been light we would have crapp ed ourselves!
PPS
Dover HW on the 20th, the day before is 22.45 so PBO = 22.45 + 3 = 02.45 and the pilot 22.45 + 5 = 04.45
So PBO, I suspect is giving the start of the flood north (which would be right if you are sneaking thru on the inside) and the pilot is slightly out as well.
Reeds didnt use to be so precise a few years ago, but I have found it to be spot on now!
 
Last edited:
skipper_stu said:
The definitive from Reeds, as you say, Slack Bardsey = Holyhead -0015 HW or +0035 LW.
My rule of thumb is leave Pwllheli (given that it takes 3 hours to get to Bardsey) an hour and a half ish before lo water pwllheli
Belfield says
Pwllheli for next Tuesday
02.51 LO 1m
08.00 HI 4.2m
15.05 LO 1.1m
20.11 HI 4.5m
Holyhead
03.53 LO
10.06 HI
16.04 LO
22.14 HI
So Reeds says slack at 03.53 + .35 = 04.28
my rule 02.51 + 1.30 = 04.21
You can catch the early flood by going between Carreg Ddu and the mainland and keep about 20yds off shore, but only in settled conditions! I did it in June and kept close to all the way round the end of the Lleyn, literally 20 yds. BUT you are going to have to go in the early hours and dark to catch the tides.
Stu
PS years ago I went thru following mates in the early hours, couldnt see a thing except their stern lights and the radar showing the shore. We had got the times all wrong and went thru with the flood in full flow, 13kts over the ground, 15 ft waves sneaking up from astern, it was wild! If it had been light we would have crapp ed ourselves!
Click to expand...
Stus info is correct. Two things extra. Make sure that you can get out of Pwllheli at local LW, especially near the 'temporary' green buoys and also as already mentioned beware of pots especially off Porth Ceriad and Cilan Head. A sensible amendment to your plan is to leave Pwllheli in the daylight the previous evening and drop the anchor in Aberdaron. Then head through the Sound at around 4.00-4.30 and you will only have less than 2h of darkness. I will be on Juggler this w/e and can talk about it if you need more detail.
 
The wonderful Glazebrook pilot says: Slack water occurs at about 2.25 hours after high and low water in the area. It gives high water at Bardsey Island 3 hours 18 minutes before HW Liverpool. So pretty close to Ralph Morris' Dover -1.00.

It also gives Holyhead as Liverpool -1.00 making the rule of thumb quoted by IPsailor pretty good.

But don't get it the wrong way round! I once did, passed through at slack going north but it was HW, not LW. We had around a F5 astern of us, kept very close to the Lleyn but had a long, rough passage to Porth Dinllaen.
 
skipper_stu said:
BUT you are going to have to go in the early hours and dark to catch the tides.
Click to expand...

Alternatively you can set off about lunchtime and catch the afternoon low water slack.

Holyhead is relatively easy to get into at night as long as you don't stare into the lights surrounding the ferry terminals and ruin your night vision.

If you tie up quickly you might even make HHSC for last orders.


.
 
Abderdaron is good for waiting if out of the wind/swell but also infested with pots so dodgy if leaving in the dark for first orders in Bardsey. Leave Abderdaron mid flood on Tuesday when its light, take it along the Llyn to Porth Dinllaen for early lunch on the hook, then take the forecast SE'lys to arrive Holyhead before dark and definitely catch the sailing club bar ....
 
Inshore Passage Info and Tidal guides

I can confirm best timing to get the inshore tidal lift is up to 2 hours before low water (Dover+5)slack. :)

We keep well inside straight line from Cilan to Bardsey tight in to Hells mouth and the two islands. Roughest spot was just off Cilan :(

Tidal flow in Hells mouth and Aberdaron bay tends to force you south of lay line.

Last trip through we were not followed by more conservative? 30+ footers.

They were more than an hour behind our Trapper Ts240 at PY because they plugged the ebb that was still running mid Bardsey sound. Must have been nearly stationary for at least an hour. Meanwhile we were getting a big lift of up to 3 knots according to difference between log and gps.:)

Keep tight headland to headland when in sound. Only problem we had actually in the sound was the westerley 4-5 died completely and the echo sounder went off because the Deep alarm was only set to 26M Fine once reset to 35M and that was low tide and very close in within 25-50 feet of headlands and cliffs.

Tripods were much flatter than off Cilan and are just outside the lay line from the last headland up to Maen Melt and on from there to Holyhead or PY.

Cliffs are very very daunting and have some incredible geological patterns in them. Watch out for pots, loads of them with some being dragged just below surface by tide.

Night passage or if a strong southerly on this inshore route would be too risky in my view.

Good navigation advice and tidal charts available here for Bardsey and Stacks

http://www.goodwillraid.com/skippers/Holyhead to Pwllheli CGWR Skippers notes.pdf

Best of luck and enjoy the ride all the way to Holyhead.

I bet you notice the change in water temperature once out of Cardigan Bay and round the corner. Its the dead souls you see. Creepy.

Steve
 
Roy Specsavers now!

Roy no mention in Shauns post regarding HW slack. His LWS plan is very good..

Do you need an appointment at Specsavers:D:D:D:D

The op was confused to start with before all the confusion in the post!

I like those visual tidal charts can see big arrows without specs!!!

Steve( on garden/jungle duty this weekend):mad:
 
shaunksb said:
Alternatively you can set off about lunchtime and catch the afternoon low water slack.

Holyhead is relatively easy to get into at night as long as you don't stare into the lights surrounding the ferry terminals and ruin your night vision.

If you tie up quickly you might even make HHSC for last orders.


.
Click to expand...

I took Shaun's advice and set off at 1200 dropped off some things on Dark Star and passed Stu and Juggler on the way out. No sign of forecast southerly instead a westerly! Passed through the sound at 1600 with no probs and were in Holyhead about 2100 and had a pint in the yatch club.
Following day continued on to Douglas IoM our final destination. Southerly F5 sea mod/rough so a bit uncomfortable but we tied up on the visitors pontoon in Douglas at 2030 so quite a fast trip. Encountered a few large vessels in Skerries TSS (nearest 200metres) but didn't have to alter course.
A few things packed up on the way: The heads refused to flush, the electric water pump stopped (later found it was a dodgy spade connector that took 1min to fix when in harbour) and the wind display went blank (not found the cause yet).
Thanks to all for advice on tides. I still think there is a bit of discrepancy between PBO small boat/Reeds almanacs and irish sea pilot. But it worked out OK
 
Last edited:
Bardsey is one bit of water for which all the pilot book cautions are for once totally justified, the other problem is that it's very difficult to avoid.

Croak said:
Is it the pannels opinion that we go inside or outside of the tripods?
Click to expand...

I would normally go outside (West) of the tripods
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top