Bamar vs Furlex vs Harken?

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jdc

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I'm thinking of replacing my foresail roller furling system since I'm not happy with it. It furls the yankee, which is a touch less than 50m^2, and the system, a Furlex 200, is slightly less than 5 seasons old. We've sailed a lot of miles, some in pretty strong winds, but surely it's 20 years too soon for things to wear out.

It's difficult to be quantitive about this, but I'm sure the Furlex system is getting worse and this last season I've had to go to the foredeck and wrestle with the foil to get the sail to run out (unless wind >F5), and to furl it I have to go onto a run and blanket it with the main if the wind is at all strong (or winch so hard that the fairlead block pulls apart). Yet when the sail is off it all parts appear to turn smoothly and I can see nothing wrong. Since the halyard takes a 1/3 turn round the forestay or sail when furling or letting out I suspect the top swivel, but it looks just as a new one (which looks pretty poor quality and somehow 'wonky' imho). I've tried more halyard tension, and less, no difference. As far as I can tell, the foil rotates freely around the forestay and there is no wear or broken strand.

So, supposing I'm going to replace something, I had a look at other makes. I have looked at Bamar and at Harken (and of course at Furlex). My impression is that the standard of engineering of the Furlex is the poorest of the three, and that the diameter of the drum the furling line coils around - a crucial parameter in my opinion - is also the smallest of the three. But I have hands-on experience only of the Furlex system, and may be deluded in thinking that there is anything to choose between makes.

Has anyone used Bamar? and has anyone comparative experience of several makes? It won't be cheap changing the system, so I'd be grateful for advice.
 
I have Bamar C1 on my HR31. Fitted 2001, generally works fine, never had to winch it.

I have Furlex 300 on my HR34 (new to me), original 2003 fit, & have had problems with top furler jamb and halyard wrap, not yet cured. I think furler is not high enough, believe it needs to be closer to halyard exit to prevent halyard wrap, some experimenting to be done.
 
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You could take a look at Spin-Tec, for a different concept. (www.spin-tec.com). It avoids halyard wrap because the halyard is removed after hoisting and it avoids ball bearing problems because there are none. Ball bearing races can jam because the halyard tension is, by necessity, off centre and this can cause the balls on one side of the race to jam. The good manufacturers do what they can to mitigate this. The Spin-Tec has no ball bearing races because there is no halyard tension that would require them - they use Delrin sleeve bearings.
We represent Spin-Tec in Europe, so I declare a commercial interest, but I have no personal experience of the system, only anecdotal evidence. When I was cruising, every one who had Spin-Tec raved about it.
I've had both Furlex and Profurl - I preferred the latter - but, frankly, I prefer hanked-on sails!
 
jdc said:
It's difficult to be quantitive about this, but I'm sure the Furlex system is getting worse and this last season I've had to go to the foredeck and wrestle with the foil to get the sail to run out (unless wind >F5), and to furl it I have to go onto a run and blanket it with the main if the wind is at all strong (or winch so hard that the fairlead block pulls apart). Yet when the sail is off it all parts appear to turn smoothly and I can see nothing wrong. Since the halyard takes a 1/3 turn round the forestay or sail when furling or letting out I suspect the top swivel, but it looks just as a new one (which looks pretty poor quality and somehow 'wonky' imho). I've tried more halyard tension, and less, no difference. As far as I can tell, the foil rotates freely around the forestay and there is no wear or broken strand.

Has anyone used Bamar? and has anyone comparative experience of several makes? It won't be cheap changing the system, so I'd be grateful for advice.
Click to expand...

If the halyard is wrapping round the forestay it sounds that it was incorrectly installed to start with. My furlex (200S?) came with a guide to rivet on the mast to alter the halyard angle. So far no problems. Mine is difficult to furl but I have found that to be the angle on to the snubbing winch that I use for the furling line. having edited your 'quote' I do agree that the furling drum is on the small size as my line only just fits. Removing some of the inner core where the line is not handled made a difference.
 
[
It's difficult to be quantitive about this, but I'm sure the Furlex system is getting worse and this last season I've had to go to the foredeck and wrestle with the foil to get the sail to run out (unless wind >F5), and to furl it I have to go onto a run and blanket it with the main if the wind is at all strong (or winch so hard that the fairlead block pulls apart). Yet when the sail is off it all parts appear to turn smoothly and I can see nothing wrong. Since the halyard takes a 1/3 turn round the forestay or sail when furling or letting out I suspect the top swivel, but it looks just as a new one (which looks pretty poor quality and somehow 'wonky' imho). I've tried more halyard tension, and less, no difference. As far as I can tell, the foil rotates freely around the forestay and there is no wear or broken strand.

Has anyone used Bamar? and has anyone comparative experience of several makes? It won't be cheap changing the system, so I'd be grateful for advice.[/QUOTE]

The Halliard should NEVER wrap around the forestay - this is your problem and needs a fairlead rivetting to the mast so the angle between the forestay and genoa halliard is at least 15 degrees. Speak to your local rigger. Another point which my friend had with his Furlex is that the halliard must not be too tight(as recommended by Furlex).
 
I have used, on various boats, owned and chartered, Plastimo, Furlex Bamar and Harken.
Furlex are, if anything over-engineered, to allow removal of the drum for racing purposes. Your Furlex 200 should, as you say be good for 20+ years. The 2 problems I have had are insufficient forestay tension, and halyard wrap, both easily fixed.
It should never be necessary to have to use a winch to furl your foresail.
Before going to the expense of changing your system, I would advise getting a rigger to inspect it: my guess would be that there is a simple fault somewhere, possibly easily fixed by an expert.
 
biscuit said:
I have used, on various boats, owned and chartered, Plastimo, Furlex Bamar and Harken.
Furlex are, if anything over-engineered, to allow removal of the drum for racing purposes. Your Furlex 200 should, as you say be good for 20+ years. The 2 problems I have had are insufficient forestay tension, and halyard wrap, both easily fixed.
It should never be necessary to have to use a winch to furl your foresail.
Before going to the expense of changing your system, I would advise getting a rigger to inspect it: my guess would be that there is a simple fault somewhere, possibly easily fixed by an expert.
Click to expand...

Agree with all of that.
I had Harken, would do again. Removable drum too
I do sometimes winch the furler, when reducing sail coming up from a broad reach onto a beat, but this is winching against the load in the sail, not any real friction in the system.
Furlex should be a good system if properly set up, but anything can fail, it only takes one duff bearing ball to break up, and they probably all buy the same ones!

My main reason for buying Harken was that I was choosing at the boat show (2001) and the other vendors couldn't be bothered with me, they only seemed interested in trade buyers who wanted 20 systems.
 
jdc said:
and the more I looked the stronger my impression that Furlex is much worse engineered than the others. So I was thinking that, should I have to replace a substantial part of the system anyway, I might be better replacing the lot.
Click to expand...

Would be interested in details,

Cheers and good luck with it.
 
biscuit said:
It should never be necessary to have to use a winch to furl your foresail.
Before going to the expense of changing your system, I would advise getting a rigger to inspect it: my guess would be that there is a simple fault somewhere, possibly easily fixed by an expert.
Click to expand...

You may very well be right that there is a simple fault. However the system was set up this year by a v. experienced and respected firm of riggers, and the lead of the halyard was changed to be at a more acute angle to the forestay - which should have helped but seems to make things worse. The sail was also hoisted this year by them as well, so there's no lack of professional attention! I have been fiddling with it all season as well, but I shall persevere for a bit before replacing it!

However at the LBS last week I started looking at furling systems and asking the salesmen about them, and peering into their construction so I'd have a better idea of what might be wrong with mine, and the more I looked the stronger my impression that Furlex is much worse engineered than the others. So I was thinking that, should I have to replace a substantial part of the system anyway, I might be better replacing the lot.
 
After many years with Furlex I have changed to Schaefer. What a difference!!!

Properly engineered, none of those annoying screws, beautifully made and no maintenance requirement. In addition, the whole furling line is visible and accessible. In my opinion this is the best quality product.

Regards
 
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The best furling system (by reputation) is probably Profurl, and that would be my choice.

The first system I installed was a Harken. I know have a larger version on my current boat .... not by choice though.

It would be okay except for bad design and manufacture of the drum 'line guard', the piece of cast aluminium outside the drum that prevents the furling rope from falling off the drum. The orifice through which the rope passes is too small and does not allow the rope to pass to the upper or lower turns on the drum without fouling the 'line guard' edges ..... unless you can mount the feeder block in just the right position. To make matters worse, the edges of the orifice are roughly machined and then anodised. Any attempt to file smooth the edges results in ugly oxidising ..... but that's preferable to chafed furling line. Also it doesn't take much to break the clamp that holds the 'line guard' on.

Frankly for such a well known company to produce and keep on producing such a fundermentally flawed product astounds me ..... but then the Raymarine ST4000 autopilot has been produced in quantity too.
 
I have profurl, seems ok. Trouble is never had any others so cant compare.
It reefs ok and will allow sail to unfurl.
 
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