Bag full of rocks as a dinghy anchor? What weight will be enough?

dancrane said:
The situation is that I want to leave the boat in shallow water while I fetch or deposit the trolley. No problem with crew - one person holds the boat. Much harder, singlehanded.

If the wind blew offshore, the breakers would be so slight that I could leave the boat half-in, half-out, resting in little danger...but that is almost never the case, and I've often had to leave her graunching horribly on the steep shingle beside the slipway.

If the wind blew offshore, it would be much easier - I could just tether the boat to a tree or bench ashore. As it is, I think a hefty grapnel will work very well - the beach is pebbly over soft mud.

I suppose I'll have to get the boat in the water, then hurl the opened grapnel as hard as possible offshore, on about 30ft of line. The water is rapidly too deep to stand in, so a shorter line risks the grapnel not biting...although, if I get it wrong, the length of the line will let the stern of the boat run ashore, and the same will happen if the grapnel drags.

The appeal of the stone-bag was the shortness of the warp required...although a large dinghy tugging horizontally on a nearly-vertical line, would probably have moved a much greater weight than I'd want to have to load and unload each time.

Trial and error will be the test. :)
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Hmmm,

I've tried throwing an anchor and chain out, from the foredeck of a boat I was trying to help, pinned against the road bridge; despite the adrenalin of the situation my attempts were pathetic, about 10' !

I suppose with practice and twirling the grapnel on the line like something out of a cartoon one might do better, but there might be a field full of dead and dying like the battle scene from Gone With The Wind before one perfected it...
 
foeu said:
Why not use the double anchor technique, as used by many to keep heavy dories, ribs and suchlike afloat whilst the crew are on the beach?
ie... Tie a long line to your main anchor (which has its own line of course) and to that affix a folding anchor or any suitable small anchor.
Put the main anchor on the bow, hold the second anchor, push the boat out and when ready launch the main anchor by pulling it off the bow. Then put the second anchor on the beach.
When ready pull on the line and retrieve the boat.
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The best answer I've seen so far I think for launching. And there's a foredeck to rest the main anchor on before you jerk it off with the shore line.

Alternatively, if you can't push the boat out far enough against the wind you could row out to anchor her and then let her drift inshore, snubbing the anchor line in just the right depth of water to climb out without the stern hitting the beach.

In that instance you don't need to attach the shore line to the anchor, just somewhere handy at the stern. It's only needed to make sure you don't have to swim out to the boat.



Doesn't have to be an anchor at the shore end, a handy rock will do.
 
Foeu, Mr Calvert, I don't doubt the two-anchor system is clever, but after reading it carefully four times, I still don't understand. But the description does suggest a similar option...

...even before I get the boat near the water, I could shackle a block onto an opened 3-kilo grapnel, and run perhaps 70ft of line through the block, two parts of 35ft each...

...then, looking round carefully to prevent the manslaughter of beach-combing families, I'll twirl the grapnel in big airborne circles, sending it far offshore...(about 30ft?)...

...and later, when I get the boat in the water, I tie one part of the rope to the bow, and haul in the other end until the boat is sitting a few feet clear of the water's edge...

...at which point I'll...look for something to tie it to. Ah! Is that what the second anchor was for? :rolleyes:

Either way, I reckon it'll be easier to throw the anchor in advance, rather than row it out, because if I spend a minute or two paddling about in the boat, my trolley will meanwhile roll into deep grey water. Avoidance of which loss was one of the reasons why I wanted something to secure the boat.

Jumbleduck, I thought of a rond anchor the other day...the memory took me back at least thirty years to reading Coot Club. When I Googled the word, Arthur Ransome's use of it was almost the only reference I could find.

I'll just remind visitors to this thread, that the difficulty I'm hoping to solve emerges because of the onshore breeze...so it's not a matter of simply securing the boat to the shore.

Thanks again! :encouragement:
 
dancrane said:
Foeu, Mr Calvert, I don't doubt the two-anchor system is clever, but after reading it carefully four times, I still don't understand. But the description does suggest a similar option...

...even before I get the boat near the water, I could shackle a block onto an opened 3-kilo grapnel, and run perhaps 70ft of line through the block, two parts of 35ft each...

...then, looking round carefully to prevent the manslaughter of beach-combing families, I'll twirl the grapnel in big airborne circles, sending it far offshore...(about 30ft?)...

...and later, when I get the boat in the water, I tie one part of the rope to the bow, and haul in the other end until the boat is sitting a few feet clear of the water's edge...

...at which point I'll...look for something to tie it to. Ah! Is that what the second anchor was for? :rolleyes:

Either way, I reckon it'll be easier to throw the anchor in advance, rather than row it out, because if I spend a minute or two paddling about in the boat, my trolley will meanwhile roll into deep grey water. Avoidance of which loss was one of the reasons why I wanted something to secure the boat.

Jumbleduck, I thought of a rond anchor the other day...the memory took me back at least thirty years to reading Coot Club. When I Googled the word, Arthur Ransome's use of it was almost the only reference I could find.

I'll just remind visitors to this thread, that the difficulty I'm hoping to solve emerges because of the onshore breeze...so it's not a matter of simply securing the boat to the shore.

Thanks again! :encouragement:
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:D
 
dancrane said:
if I spend a minute or two paddling about in the boat, my trolley will meanwhile roll into deep grey water. Avoidance of which loss was one of the reasons why I wanted something to secure the boat.
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Dan, you're obviously barking up the wrong tree, what you really need is a trolley anchor.
 
James_Calvert said:
...what you really need is a trolley anchor.
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I've seen plenty of singlehanders, utterly stumped by the situation I've described, simply launch their boats and sail away, leaving their trolleys part-submerged on the slipway.

Aside from the possible loss which such careless abandonment seems seriously to risk, meeting a solid bit of wood and metal such as my trolley wouldn't do the bow of another dinghy any good at all as she approaches the slipway.

I'm sold on the grapnel as an improvement on the stone-bag...I reckon practice will clarify which method of use will enable singlehanded launching & landing without damage. :encouragement:
 
dancrane said:
I've seen plenty of singlehanders, utterly stumped by the situation I've described, simply launch their boats and sail away, leaving their trolleys part-submerged on the slipway.

Aside from the possible loss which such careless abandonment seems seriously to risk, meeting a solid bit of wood and metal such as my trolley wouldn't do the bow of another dinghy any good at all as she approaches the slipway.

I'm sold on the grapnel as an improvement on the stone-bag...I reckon practice will clarify which method of use will enable singlehanded launching & landing without damage. :encouragement:
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Well I was only trying to help.....:rolleyes:
 
Thanks, it was a nice thought. But I also anticipate long days, nights and weekends away from my launch-site, during which I'd much prefer my trolley to be locked in the pound.

I had a look at grapnels on the Force 4 site...I wonder how small is too small to be useful? I reckon 4kg sounds about right, but I guess fluke-length counts as much as weight.
 
dancrane said:
Thanks, it was a nice thought. But I also anticipate long days, nights and weekends away from my launch-site, during which I'd much prefer my trolley to be locked in the pound.

I had a look at grapnels on the Force 4 site...I wonder how small is too small to be useful? I reckon 4kg sounds about right, but I guess fluke-length counts as much as weight.
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I look forward to a thread on how best you can throw it.

4kg happens to be the same weight as the women's Olympic shot put - and they reckon on a put of 20 something metres or so.

The women's Olympic hammer is also 4kg, thrown a good deal over 60 metres.

You want 10 metres, but with a rope and block attached....

Do keep us posted! :encouragement:
 
James_Calvert said:
I look forward to a thread on how best you can throw it. 4kg happens to be the same weight as the women's Olympic shot put...you want 10 metres, but with a rope and block attached...
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I'm not drunk, honestly...but I don't think ten meters sounds much, given that I can use at least some of the line's length to broaden the radius of my swing.

And, significantly, I'm not a woman!

In the New Year, I'll get SWMBO to video me tossing the thing seaward, as a bit of boat-related stuff which needn't involve getting cold and wet. I hope.
 
Dan,

if you manage 10 metres I'll be seriously impressed; in the meantime you've heard the RFA ships like Sir Galahad of Falklands fame have huge kedge anchors deployed by rockets ?

Now there's a winter project to get your teeth into...
 
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Right, I'll get down to Force 4 before Christmas, and start practicing my grapnel-throw in the park. Or, maybe somewhere I won't be so closely observed. And by the time next season starts, I'll be lobbing it across to the Isle of Wight and winching myself upwind. ;)
 
dancrane said:
Right, I'll get down to Force 4 before Christmas, and start practicing my grapnel-throw in the park. Or, maybe somewhere I won't be so closely observed. And by the time next season starts, I'll be lobbing it across to the Isle of Wight and winching myself upwind. ;)
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In the good old days this is how ferry services were born...:)
 
dancrane said:
Right, I'll get down to Force 4 before Christmas, and start practicing my grapnel-throw in the park. Or, maybe somewhere I won't be so closely observed. And by the time next season starts, I'll be lobbing it across to the Isle of Wight and winching myself upwind. ;)
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It is an awkward problem to solve.
You need to create the same scenario. Just remember to practice standing in a 4ft deep puddle in the freezing cold wearing a wet suit with one hand tied to a log. Then throw the grapnel - which will have zero holding power (except if it hooks the shroud or mainsail etc) .
Just do not do it in the park near a kids playground. The authorities are on the lookout for people doing just that

If you manage to avoid getting locked up, I bet your next thread will be to inquire the forums thoughts on whether you should use a 12mm braid on braid anchor line or 2mm dynema --personally i would go for 25mm multiplat

My experience of small grapnels is that they are made for racing dinghies where the class or racing rules say they have to carry an anchor. They are useless for anchoring the boat simply because they are not heavy enough, unless one can find a sand bank & go & ram it in the ground

You might have more luck baiting the grapnel & wait for a passing shark to pull the boat out for you

Have you not thought of chucking the bottle buoyancy & getting an extra strong sausage buoyancy bag. When you get to the shore stick it under the bow as a roller & pull the boat forward on that until it is far enough out of the water to leave for a minute or two. It would have to be fitted in the boat with a quick release mechanism so you could drop the sail, then deploy the air bag. You might get a very small one, clip it to the head of the sail as an anti inversion device in the event of a capsize. When you drop the sail it will be to hand. But inflate it really hard or it might squash too much with the boat on it. Alternatively if you have enough room get a 150mm diameter plastic drain pipe 2-3 ft long & use that. Plug the ends if it can double up as buoyancy

Of course you could think laterally -- can you not sail somewhere else, where there are less breaking waves & a shallow slope to the beach so you can just gently beach the boat-- or would that be a silly suggestion?

But good luck whatever you decide :encouragement:
 
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Thanks Mr Believer...et al...

...I must repeat that the grapnel is not intended to replace my Danforth...just to hold the boat temporarily in this launching & landing situation.
 
Dan,

it strikes me that when you're swinging around the anchor in your Hallberg Rassey you'll look back on these days with your Osprey as the most fun with a boat you ever had, including the pondering...

Andy
 
Are you planning to sling your hook from the shore, or whilst afloat? If the latter, Mr Newton will come into the equation.
 
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