Back Stay Adjusters

[richardbrennan]

I am thinking of fitting a backstay adjuster to my 33' boat and I am a little bewildered by the range of types available.

The seem to start with a fairly simple wheel, costing a few hundred pounds, up through various ratchets and winch handle types, to hydraulic systems costing thousands. Opinions and experiences on the pros and cons of the various types would be appreciated.

 

[dom]

What's the boat and what do you want to do with it?

 

[sailorman]

What's the boat and what do you want to do with it?

[h=5]bout richardbrennan[/h]user_name_impex:Blujayextra_1:Westerley Ocean 33

 

[Poignard]

If you happen to have twin backstays, all you need is two blocks, a cleat and a length of rope arranged so as to pull the two stays towards each other. I have that arrangement. It works perfectly, cost very little and there's not much can go wrong with it.

Before that I rigged a Spanish windlass which cost nowt!

 

[johnalison]

I have a winch handle type, which works fine but one of the easiest was one on the Sadler, which was like a wheel one but with two arms that folded away when not in use but gave decent leverage.

 

[horatio_nelson]

I have a winch handle type, which works fine but one of the easiest was one on the Sadler, which was like a wheel one but with two arms that folded away when not in use but gave decent leverage.

Would it get much use? If so, in what circumstances? (And would other rig need tweaking?) am genuinely interested (got a 8:1 block on mine)

Ta

 

[pagoda]

It depends what you hope to use it for. The rewards/effects (or not) for masthead VS fractional rigs are quite different. Ours is a masthead rig, one folding wheeled screw adjuster on one backstay. If beating you can pile on a bit more forestay tension to keep your jib tight.. and ease when off the wind a bit.
If my son were allowed to race more - it would probably get more use...!

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Properly used it will help you go faster.

Do you know how to use it properly?
Why do you want to go faster?

I hardly ever used mine. Not worth the money IMHO. I couldnt give a whatsit for a minor increase in speed. It just increases the amount of time you sit in the anchorage drinking, which, as we all know, is bad for your health.

 

[charles_reed]

One has to query why anyone would need to vary backstay tension on a masthead rig like the Oceanmaster 33.
Definitely a tweaking aid on 3/4 and 7/8 rigs with bendy, keel-stepped masts, but for a staid cruiser...

Bendy masts have many drawbacks - especially gravity storms. But if the OP is set on fitting his go-faster stripe - the cheapest is the squeezer, backstay into a twin configuration with a RWO, twin wheel pulled down by a 6:1 tackle.
I would, however, recommend he gets advice from a proper rigger, rather than the enthusiasts on this site. Trying to bend a mast not intended for the purpose is liable to incur severe structural consequences.

 

[Burnham Bob]

so with a masthead rig the tensioner is not really much use in practice? i ask becasue that's my set up

 

[VicMallows]

Tensioners may even be responsible for considerable harm. Some people seem to have got hold of the idea that the tensioner should be slackened well off when not using the boat "to save stress on the rig/boat". An ideal way to encourage fatigue failure!

 

[G12]

My last boat was masthead rigged with a backstay adjuster, it was a great setup. I'm well used to tweaking things all the time though, not exactly your average cruiser.... Cranked it on upwind to get the forestay sag minimalised and eased off when offind. I now have a different (masthead) boat and miss being able to reduce forestay sag upwind. She has twin backstays but I'm not happy about drawing them together as suggested earlier in the thread, I'm concerned about fatigue in the wire.

 

[westhinder]

so with a masthead rig the tensioner is not really much use in practice? i ask becasue that's my set up

So is my set-up: keel-stepped masthead rig with hydraulic tensioner. I am not a racer but like the boat to perform properly. When sailing close-hauled putting on tension eliminates forestay sag and enables you to point higher and sail faster.

 

[richardbrennan]

The boat is a Westerly Ocean 33 and it has a fractional rig which is described as 15/16 in the "Westerly Story". You may recall that I posted some months ago about a mast panting problem which appeared after I bought a new mainsail which is, on the recommendation of the sailmaker, of heavier cloth and has an extra full baton compared to the old one. I will save you the full saga, which has required a new and beefier mast support post to be fitted at great expense, but after setting up the rig again, the situation has improved but has not entirely been eliminated. We have now made further tweaks to the rig but I have not as yet had a chance to sail the boat in the same sort of "Solent Chop" which brings on the problem. The sailmaker, denying any responsibility for the problem, has always maintained that the rig should have a backstay tensioner so this is just about the only place to go if I still have a problem, hence the question. I have no experience of sailing with such a device and any advice on using one is therefore most welcome. The boat has a single backstay and fitting a split one would be difficult.

 

[sailorman]

The boat is a Westerly Ocean 33 and it has a fractional rig which is described as 15/16 in the "Westerly Story". You may recall that I posted some months ago about a mast panting problem which appeared after I bought a new mainsail which is, on the recommendation of the sailmaker, of heavier cloth and has an extra full baton compared to the old one. I will save you the full saga, which has required a new and beefier mast support post to be fitted at great expense, but after setting up the rig again, the situation has improved but has not entirely been eliminated. We have now made further tweaks to the rig but I have not as yet had a chance to sail the boat in the same sort of "Solent Chop" which brings on the problem. The sailmaker, denying any responsibility for the problem, has always maintained that the rig should have a backstay tensioner so this is just about the only place to go if I still have a problem, hence the question. I have no experience of sailing with such a device and any advice on using one is therefore most welcome. The boat has a single backstay and fitting a split one would be difficult.

That may well be your problem

 

[johnalison]

I had an adjuster on a small '70s boat with masthead rig. As well as giving more tension when needed, it made a lot of difference when under spinnaker, when steering improved markedly if the backstay was eased off, so having an adjustment can be useful, even if not actually racing.

 

[Poignard]

(...)

She has twin backstays but I'm not happy about drawing them together as suggested earlier in the thread, I'm concerned about fatigue in the wire.

Can you explain why you think there is a risk of fatigue? It's a very common arrangement and I've never heard of any instance of it causing a backstay failure.

 

[dom]

...I posted some months ago about a mast panting problem which appeared after I bought a new mainsail which is, on the recommendation of the sailmaker, of heavier cloth and has an extra full baton compared to the old one. I will save you the full saga, which has required a new and beefier mast support post to be fitted at great expense, but after setting up the rig again, the situation has improved but has not entirely been eliminated.

...The sailmaker, denying any responsibility for the problem, has always maintained that the rig should have a backstay tensioner so this is just about the only place to go if I still have a problem, hence the question. I have no experience of sailing with such a device and any advice on using one is therefore most welcome.

The good news is that you can forget about hydraulic and use a far cheaper in-line cascade or wheel/ratchet tensioner of the Witchard type. Fitting either of these will require your backstay to be cut and consequently the services of a rigger.

But my advice is to contact a rigger BEFORE doing anything, preferably the chap who fitted the mast strut if you trust him. All masts pant a bit in a chop and you may just be a bit oversensitive now that you are watching it like a hawk. But I'm worried by the fact that you had to fit a new strut after fitting a new sail (bit odd but not unheard of) and by the fact that you feel your sailmaker is attempting to pass the buck.

My advice is therefore to get your rigger onboard to check over your entire setup, explain to him your concerns and then ask for his impartial advice. You can then come back to the forum in the full expectation of obtaining some sharper more detailed advice.

 

[richardbrennan]

Dear Dom

The mast strut is a known problem and it was beefed up in the later boats. My rigger (XW) has spent an inordinate amount of time trying various options with the rig, often in his own time, and the panting is much improved but not entirely eliminated. You may well be right in suggesting that I am now perhaps oversensitive to the problem. If I do decided to go down the road of a backstay tensioner, I am interested in views as to whether the simple wheel would be adequate, or is it worth shelling out for the ratchet type.

Many thanks for your comments

Rick

 

[dom]

If I do decided to go down the road of a backstay tensioner, I am interested in views as to whether the simple wheel would be adequate, or is it worth shelling out for the ratchet type.

I can see no problem with a wheel adjuster for the size of boat in question - it a good balance between price/quality and adjustability. Pricier ratchet systems are more suited to installations requiring regular tweaking. As a matter of interest what adjustment mechanisms are currently fitted to your back and forestays, bottlescrews? I'm just wondering is there a zero cost solution in there somewhere!

Either way, the objective is to trim your topmast to both improve the fit of your upper sail shape and reduce the mast panting in waves to which you refer; and yes the Solent chop can be a bugger! But be sure to start with a correctly tensioned rig as fractional rigs should not have the "flappy" lee shrouds some view as normal. If your mast has double lowers, the forward lowers should normally be a smidge tighter than the aft to induce a hint of static mast pre-bend to prevent a mast inversion. The aft lowers are there to limit this pre-bend and consequently dampen fore and aft panting. This guide may help:
http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf

And finally a word of caution - overtightening the backstay can induce too much bend and allow your shrouds to go slack with potentially catastrophic consequences.