B****y rude or normal practice?

maxcampbell

maxcampbell

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Overtaking in lock approaches. We do cruise fairly slowly, and especially when they're closed we do approach locks slowly, but on 2 occasions during a weekend on the Thames we were overtaken by big cruisers within a couple of hundred yards of a lock. The first time, we were in a line of boats approaching an emptying lock, with the boats coming out & down the left hand side of the river, so the approaching line was keeping left, too. Then a big reverse sheer flybridge cruiser came down the right hand side, overtook us about 200 yards from the lock and took the second-to-last space.

The other time a whole bunch of boats came up, one overtook then had to slow sharply at the end of the lock moorings, one aborted an attempted overtake, then grumbled at us for taking too long - we all had to wait a good ten minutes anyway, as the lock had only just closed.

We've done a good many miles on a wide variety of british rivers, but is this now just normal practice on the Thames? I hated it.
 
Possibly you were going too slow, most larger cruisers need around 4-5 knots just to maintain steerage. Without witnessing the 'incidents' I cannot really say. The fact that at least two boats felt they could safely overtake you on two separate occasions speaks volumes.
Petty annoyances are boats who fail to take up the nearest position to the lock or fail to move along and those who dither in the lock cut leaving others to flounder about in the wind.
I cast no judgement just make a point.
 
Nobody but nobody has any time on the Thames and the Grand Prix between locks is just normal practice.
Just remember but a few short hours ago these bods would have been tailgating somebody at 90 MPH in the outside lane of the M4 in order to get to the "Duck" for a bottle or two of Blanc de Noirs, Clos d'Ambonnay, Brut (bloody bargain only £4600.00 per bottle) and then on round to the marina at Bray.
Let them them fight it out for the lock and just hang back and enjoy the piece and quiet.
Most of the wash will have subsided by the time you finally exit the lock. :):):)
 
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byron said:
Petty annoyances are boats who fail to take up the nearest position to the lock or fail to move along and those who dither in the lock cut leaving others to flounder about in the wind.
I cast no judgement just make a point.
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If the vessels concerned overtook in the approach to the lock, the lock cut, they are commiting a navigation offence, under the Thames navigation bylaws. If I find boats that moor on the far ends of laybys or hover in mid stream I will go past them and moor at the nearest point to the lock, and then go in ahead of them. Every lock lay-by has signs that say move along when there is space ahead. On some boats people can have real difficulty in holding off in the stream, especially in windy conditions. Not all vessels have twin engines and or thrusters. This may be seen by some people as an obnoxious attitude, but, is it not more inconsiderate to hold back and stop people who wish to use the laybys to moor whilst waiting to enter the lock. This is something that I have in, the past discussed with a number of lock keepers
and they agree it is a justifiable approach.
 
oldgit said:
Nobody but nobody has any time on the Thames and the Grand Prix between locks is just normal practice.
Just remember but a few short hours ago these bods would have been tailgating somebody at 90 MPH in the outside lane of the M4 in order to get to the "Duck" for a bottle or two of Blanc de Noirs, Clos d'Ambonnay, Brut (bloody bargain only £4600.00 per bottle) and then on round to the marina at Bray.
Let them them fight it out for the lock and just hang back and enjoy the piece and quiet.
Most of the wash will have subsided by the time you finally exit the lock. :):):)
Click to expand...

WOW! not everyone at Bray has a Gin Palace.. some of us have Milk Floats.. :-)
 
Difficult to be objective as I wasn't there and didn't see the events. However, assuming your version of events to be accurate then yes, that is blxxdy rude, but unfortunately not always unexpected on the Thames.

There will always be the arrogant impatient boaters as there are arrogant impatient drivers and in all walks of life - as said above, don't let it get to you...

As long as they're not making bank eroding, duckling distressing wash then take a deep breath, relax and let them get on with it.

That said, Byron does have point. I have one of these big cruisers that apparently I shouldn't be using on the river. My minimum in gear speed is 3.6kts and I don't have a bow thruster. Yes, this is my choice and it is my problem - but in the same way as I make allowances in my behaviour for rowers, sailors, hire boats and slow boats, a bit of mutual understanding and empathy is required. If you come out of lock and proceed at 2kts (as you are perfectly entitled to do) I will overtake you. I can't remain in control of my vessel if I don't, as there is not enough water flowing over my rudders and I'm not going to spend all day going in and out of gear every ten seconds.

You are right though - if people are clearly overtaking at the last moment to gain a place or two at the lock, that is rude.
 
Ross

I've no objection to being overtaken on the way out of a lock, or anywhere other than on the approach to a lock - or an approach to a mooring. You've worked out your plan, crew has prepared the lines and reccying where to drop them, and someone whisks past and nabs the spot.

And, sorry, but if your minimum speed is 83% of the maximum allowed speed, you have got the wrong sort of boat.
 
I can't remain in control of my vessel if I don't, as there is not enough water flowing over my rudders and I'm not going to spend all day going in and out of gear every ten seconds.
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So you can remain in control but cant be bothered to flip a lever ? C'mon that i need the speed to be in control is **** and we all know it . Or are you all saying you couldnt hold your boat where you want it from one lock to another and let the water take you there ?
 
maxcampbell said:
And, sorry, but if your minimum speed is 83% of the maximum allowed speed, you have got the wrong sort of boat.
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I'm sorry but everybody above is trying to put a balenced opinion but you are clearly predudiced, there is no excuse for rudeness and you see a lot of it on the River unfortunately and from all differnent sorts of boaters. But the great appeal of the Thames is the massive variety of craft you see on it, long may that variety continue.

Try driving at 15mph through a town and see how many peeps overtake you before the next traffic lights, sometimes you have to try and see things from others point of view, it was incredibly windy on Monday and a lot of craft would have been struggling to maintain control, you may have been causing an obstruction without realising it.
 
maxcampbell said:
And, sorry, but if your minimum speed is 83% of the maximum allowed speed, you have got the wrong sort of boat.
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Sorry, I agree with much of what you say but this snippet is not going to win you many friends.
What boat people choose to go boating in is their business.
If the EA are prepared to take their money then they are allowed on the Thames.
 
Captain Coochie said:
So you can remain in control but cant be bothered to flip a lever ? C'mon that i need the speed to be in control is **** and we all know it . Or are you all saying you couldnt hold your boat where you want it from one lock to another and let the water take you there ?
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Pretty much with Mondays wind, yes, that's what I'm saying!

My boat has massive wind age and not a lot underneath... I need some way on or I end up sideways or being blown towards the bank or worse. It was so bad that going through cookham reach a fair amount of correction was required just to keep going straight in the gusts.

I disagree that I shouldn't be using my boat on the Thames. I bought her as I wanted something sea capable for extended passages, but I also like the Thames. Keeping her under control is my problem, and I would NEVER overtake in the clearly selfish way described - I do have some manners!

As for not being bothered to flick a lever - that's not what I mean. It's the constant in and out of gear every few seconds cos I can't go slow enough in gear at idle, but I need to remain in control.

Capt Coochie - have you tried helming a 38' flybridge with no thruster at very low speed in the wind? You NEED some power on.
 
The way people react to overtaking is variable. There are places to do it and places not to. I rarely feel the need to overtake but the occasions I do usually fall into 2 categories. Firstly it will be because I am sitting behind a craft billowing out smoke and fumes which quite frankly if blowing in my direction I don't feel inclined to spend an hour or so inhaling. Often I get the shaking head but I am not prepared to fill my lungs with carcinogenic particles. I pride myself that the emissions from my engines are as clear as mountain air.:)
The second is the boat that is quite happy to bimble along at tick over and making very little progress as is their want. That's fine and I do it myself sometimes. Often I get the friendly wave to pass. But if not I will overtake; the river cannot be hogged.
What you can't do is create disruptive wash past moored boats irrespective of your reasoning.
 
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