B&G Vulcan interfacing limited?

[syfuga]

At the moment, I'm assuming the original transfer of information from your PC to the older Raymarine C90 MFD was likely to be via NMEA0183 (unless you had an NMEA0183<-> Seatalk convertor on your PC that did the conversions).

Yes via a Seatalk/NMEA interface.. with serial output from the PC. This is now wifi between the PC and the Quark AO34B, that should be outputting NMEA2K (as shown in the photo). We are getting heading and GPS data ok into the PC, and the Vulcan sees the compass data (Quark) ok, but although it recognises the A034B it is not picking up any data from it, apparently. So it may not be the Vulcan's fault.

My next step is to go back to the A034B configuration (displayed in the photo) and talk to Quark. No real way to see what is flying on the NMEA2K, however, the data packets received by the Vulcan are only around 8 a second, so I suspect that is just the compass.

 

[Martin_J]

Note - If you did have the waypoint position on your MFD, then the MFD itself would work out the bearing and distance to waypoint by itself.

 

[syfuga]

I was replying to what you had said above..

I read that message as implying the B&G Vulcan was not receiving waypoints that you had externally generated on the computer and you were somehow believing they were being transmitted onto the NMEA2000.

You are right to be suspicious, see below

 

[syfuga]

Note - If you did have the waypoint position on your MFD, then the MFD itself would work out the bearing and distance to waypoint by itself.

No, I believe that was PC generated. The option of setting a waypoint on the MFD was there, but we did not do that generally. It displayed the waypoint in the normal way when externally generated, and OpenCPN generated the data. (I think)

 

[Martin_J]

This YachtD article explains quite a bit about what NMEA0183 sentences are required to be converted into NMEA2000 PGNs.

Yacht Devices News: Update v1.07 for USB, Wi-Fi and NMEA 0183 gateways

The Quark does not appear to list anything near the required conversion, although the Vulcan will still receive PGN130074.

The best way to see what is on the NMEA2000 backbone (packet by packet) would be to get a convertor and view the actual PGNs one by one on an analyser.

 

[syfuga]

It's probably boring people discussing in detail here. I now have a comms issue between opencpn pc and the N2k network so need to find out what I've done to upset it, and will go offline. It has been useful input and suggested other lines of enquiry. Jury is out!

 

[syfuga]

Just an update on progress (lack of).

Firstly when I first posted I was concerned about the limited interfacing of the Vulcan. My understanding (from discussion with Navico support) is that the wifi access point in the Vulcan is only capable of transmitting data, not receiving it. (Though I find this strange, as the ability to login from a mobile or pad and control the Vulcan suggests otherwise). Hence the need to interface via N2K.

Secondly, during the interesting session yesterday morning with dolabritform and martin_j, the comms with the wifi on the Quark gradually died. That now looks like a return journey to Huntingdon for it.

Prior to that the Vulcan was seeing the Quark N2K device, but not picking up any data from it.

It is very frustrating: do I cut the hole for the Vulcan in the cockpit bulkhead, or do I need a different hole, for, let's say, an Axiom 7?

If anyone can tell me how they interfaced OpenCPN to their Vulcan, I will buy them a beer!

 

[syfuga]

A brief follow up. The interfacing units are all now doing their job. The data arrives at the Vulcan, but I have been unable to display the data, and it seems inconsistent.

You can read all about it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/et5jzmp5dz1r6oq/Vulcan%20software%20configuration%20issue.pdf?dl=0

If anyone can suggest a solution, there is a prize.

 

[dolabriform]

A brief follow up. The interfacing units are all now doing their job. The data arrives at the Vulcan, but I have been unable to display the data, and it seems inconsistent.

You can read all about it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/et5jzmp5dz1r6oq/Vulcan%20software%20configuration%20issue.pdf?dl=0

If anyone can suggest a solution, there is a prize.

Have you tried editing the instrument panel display to select the external waypoint rather than the internal one?

Select the bar, tap on the menu button top right, select edit.

Tap on the waypoint brg box, it will show a list of items to display. On the right of the item you will see a list icon. Tap on this and it will show you a list of available data sources for that parameter.

From what you say I expect it is set to the vulcan and not the received data.

 

[Martin_J]

I'm in the middle of work calls but still not sure what you're trying to get at...

If the Vulcan is receiving the waypoint correctly from OpenCPN, and is set to go to that waypoint... then it will work out the distance and bearing itself. It will not need to be told the result of that calculation by any external system.

That type of thing is usual in many navigation systems in that locally obtained (or calculated) information is preferred to that which is seen/ heard from external sources.

Are you failing to display the OpenCPN created waypoint on the Vulcan?

 

[Martin_J]

I might be able to try to simulate this later... (if a can find a spare minute or two).

 

[Martin_J]

Ah.

I see that you don't have things like time and distance to waypoint.

Do you need to select 'go to waypoint' within the Vulcan.

Apologies for vague questions. Although I have a Vulcan on board, it's really just been sitting there as a backup to the Zeuses so it's not really been used.

 

[Laser310]

I only have experience with Zeus, not Vulcan.., but I do not think it is possible to send an active waypoint from a PC over N2K to the Zeus.

You can send range and bearing to waypoint, and have it display on the zeus, or on mast displays, but that is not the same as having the Zeus recognize an active waypoint on the N2K network, displaying that waypoint graphically on the plotter, and then calculating, say, range an bearing to that wayopoint locally on the Zeus.

Yes, you can FTP a GPX file with a wyapoint or a route to the card in the Zeus, and then activate it in the zeus, but again.., that is not exactly what we would like to do.

I usually use an Actisense NGT-1 N2K interface to connect the PC to the N2K backbone. I receive H5000 data and AIS over it.., and send numbers from the laptopto Garmin N2K mast displays - but the Zeus will not recognize an active waypint send from a PC nav program to the N2K network.

I also sometimes use the websocket connection to the H5000, and it doesn't make any difference - still no active waypoints are recognized.

 

[syfuga]

Have you tried editing the instrument panel display to select the external waypoint rather than the internal one?

Select the bar, tap on the menu button top right, select edit.

Tap on the waypoint brg box, it will show a list of items to display. On the right of the item you will see a list icon. Tap on this and it will show you a list of available data sources for that parameter.

From what you say I expect it is set to the vulcan and not the received data.

Yes I have. It is set to the received data, not the Vulcan! But will only display a BTW, DTW if you set one in the Vulcan. If you look at the set up in my document, it shows that.
Thanks though.

 

[syfuga]

I only have experience with Zeus, not Vulcan.., but I do not think it is possible to send an active waypoint from a PC over N2K to the Zeus.

You can send range and bearing to waypoint, and have it display on the zeus, or on mast displays, but that is not the same as having the Zeus recognize an active waypoint on the N2K network, displaying that waypoint graphically on the plotter, and then calculating, say, range an bearing to that wayopoint locally on the Zeus.

Yes, you can FTP a GPX file with a wyapoint or a route to the card in the Zeus, and then activate it in the zeus, but again.., that is not exactly what we would like to do.

I usually use an Actisense NGT-1 N2K interface to connect the PC to the N2K backbone. I receive H5000 data and AIS over it.., and send numbers from the laptopto Garmin N2K mast displays - but the Zeus will not recognize an active waypint send from a PC nav program to the N2K network.

I also sometimes use the websocket connection to the H5000, and it doesn't make any difference - still no active waypoints are recognized.

Yes, I agree with your analysis. It seems the Zeus behaves in the same way as the Vulcan.
This was so easy with Raymarine C9W MFD and Seatalk/NMEA0183, I can't believe we have gone backwards.
I am not interested in transferring routes, only to get the active waypoint from the chart software (In this case OpenCPN) to the display.

 

[syfuga]

Ah.

I see that you don't have things like time and distance to waypoint.

Do you need to select 'go to waypoint' within the Vulcan.

Apologies for vague questions. Although I have a Vulcan on board, it's really just been sitting there as a backup to the Zeuses so it's not really been used.

That particular instrument data screen is naff, I know. Not interested in times.. only want to get to the next waypoint, and to know when I am getting there. That is on the right hand side. If COG is near enough BTW you are on course, if it isn't maybe the tide is taking you onto the rocks?

The idea is to be able to use the vastly superior Chart software on a PC to examine, move, insert waypoints, modifying the route as necessary to take into account the reality of the passage (e.g a headwind that requires you to tack between obstructions). You control it all from the chart plotter, and display the currently active waypoint, one by one, as you proceed, on the MFD in the cockpit.

Thanks for input

 

[syfuga]

I'm in the middle of work calls but still not sure what you're trying to get at...

If the Vulcan is receiving the waypoint correctly from OpenCPN, and is set to go to that waypoint... then it will work out the distance and bearing itself. It will not need to be told the result of that calculation by any external system.

That type of thing is usual in many navigation systems in that locally obtained (or calculated) information is preferred to that which is seen/ heard from external sources.

Are you failing to display the OpenCPN created waypoint on the Vulcan?

I think I answered this below.. nav data is received on the Vulcan, but not displayed.

 

[syfuga]

in another place, a chap has come up with the contention that Zeus/Vulcan will only process PGN 130074 from NMEA2000, not PGN 129284 (Nav data). I think NMEA 0183 WPL translates to 130074 - but have not yet found the precise definition.
The Raymarine C9W I used to use was very happy with RMC, XTE

The Vulcan installation manual simply lists the PGN's supported, including both 130074(waypoint position and names) and 129284 (Nav Data).

 

[syfuga]

Hi,

I bought a Vulcan 7 recently as it seemed to be more versatile with wifi, smart phone interfaces etc. and assumed that it would do what I wanted.

I like to use OpenCPN for chartwork at the chart table, setting up routes and adjusting them easily with a mouse. I have been familiarising myself with the Vulcan on the desk at home, and the wifi links work well.

However, while I am receiving GPS position, COG, SOG from the Vulcan on the PC, I cannot set a route on the PC and get the Vulcan to recognise this, or display distance, bearing to waypoint and cross track error. You can set up a waypoint, route on the Vulcan, but there appears no way that it will passively display waypoint on the chart.

And I haven't even started to test AIS, and there seems to be no support?

Am I missing something? I hope I am wrong! Anyone want a new Vulcan 7, boxed?

UPDATE:
I'd like to thank everyone here who has tried to suggest a solution.
Below you will find a link to a paper showing my set up of the Vulcan, that I hope may stimulate a solution from B&G.

This is what the chart plotter is for IMO.


Well, @stevead's plugin should probably fix that, or make it an operation of one or two clicks. You should message him.


I have B&G Vulcan in the cockpit too - if I added a Raymarine chartplotter at the chart table, I wouldn't be surprised if they were unable to share routes between them. I'm pretty sure each of these manufacturers can send routes to their own autopilots, but not to the other's. It's the sort of detail you need to check before buying, if it's important to you.

OpenCPN is written by hobbyists for hobbyists - it's just some guy who decided to write a chartplotter app, then posted his work online. You've got the source code - you can download it and make the changes you want. The problem with this is obviously that most people aren't skilled programmers and wouldn't know where to start - yeah, it's super hard a computer program of this complexity, which is why it's unreasonable to moan that you got it for free and it doesn't meet your standards.

Hello, I've come back to you, as I wish I had contacted Stevead. Not because that is the answer I hoped for, but because it has thrown light on the whole issue.

Messing about with GPX files is something you do if you must when bored in harbour, not tacking down a channel with hazards at either side. Setting routes, dynamically adjusting waypoints to take account of circumstances, is something best done on a chart system. You can do this instantly, dynamically, in seconds, just dragging or inserting a new waypoint with a mouse.

The key is that GPX data, supported in OpenCPN by 'Send to GPS' is supported by NMEA 2K PGN130074 into which 0183 WPL is mapped. This is what B&G appear to support.
Dynamic navigation data, output to an autohelm or MFD in OpenCPN, is supported by 0183 RMC and XTE. These map into PGN129284. B&G say they support this, but do not currently do so. That is also what Quark-Elec support, and is equivalent to what Raymarine did on their C series MFD's.

Thanks to alll who have contributed below.


John