B&G Vulcan 7 Missing Data

DanLXIX

DanLXIX

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Just got my new Vulcan 7 up and running, connected to a DST810 triducer and a NASA Marine wind sensor. Generally all is good but I can't get any log data from the DST810 even though it provides it, and I also don't get any true wind direction, only speed and the sail steer overlay on the chart doesn't show any wind data at all (the photo hopefully shows that). I don't have an electronic compass so I was expecting the TWD to only work when I'm moving, but does anyone know how I can get this data displaying?

I've raised a ticket with B&G, but I'm getting no reply, which is not good customer service I have to say.


PXL_20210619_123855562.jpg
 
When you say no "log data" I'm not sure whether you mean speed through the water or distance run.

Traditionally true wind is calculated from the apparent wind plus the STW from the log, nothing to do with compass data. I don't know exactly what B&G do, but if you don't have STW then I'm not surprised you don't have true wind.

Even if heading was used in true wind calculations, I wouldn't expect them to fall back to COG if not available, as you seem to be implying. The two are often not similar enough to be interchangeable for this purpose.

Since NASA tend towards the low-tech I'm assuming the wind sensor is connected using NMEA0183? Does the plotter have an input for that, or is there a converter of some kind in use? A cheap USB serial port will let you check what sentences it's transmitting.

Pete
 
We have the previous generation of the Vulcan under the Simrad label but I suspect the inputs are the same or similar.

I was under the impression you would need a fluxgate compass for the Vulcan to display wind direction, apparent or true. I don't think it calculates direction from GPS, theoretically it could do - but I suspect it assumes installation of a fluxgate compass. If you are getting wind speed then the NASA is transmitting and I suspect because there is no directional information available - that's all you can expect.

I am also puzzled - the data at the top of the Vulcan seems to be boat speed which looks like 9.5 knots and you are obviously in a sailing yacht (or is it 9.5kilometers) - if its knots - there is something seriously wrong - or you have a very fast yacht - and I want one!

We have found B&G and Simrad offering superb service, but its a different office. I'd suggest use of the old standby - the phone. They might, like Pete and myself, be slightly puzzled with your description and question which may cause them a delay. Maybe if you clarify with us and possibly get more input you can then phone B&G better prepared.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
I was under the impression you would need a fluxgate compass for the Vulcan to display wind direction, apparent or true.
Click to expand...

I'd agree, if we're referring to an actual north-referenced bearing for the wind. But both "apparent wind" and "true wind" normally mean angles relative to the boat - 42º to stbd, for instance, or 120º to port. With traditional separate instruments you get apparent wind from the wind unit alone, and then if you feed it a speed-through-water from the log you will also get true wind. No compass or GPS involved.

Pete
 
prv said:
I'd agree, if we're referring to an actual north-referenced bearing for the wind. But both "apparent wind" and "true wind" normally mean angles relative to the boat - 42º to stbd, for instance, or 120º to port. With traditional separate instruments you get apparent wind from the wind unit alone, and then if you feed it a speed-through-water from the log you will also get true wind. No compass or GPS involved.

Pete
Click to expand...

I agree

But cannot recall if the data is also contingent on knowing which way they yacht is travelling, is the yacht orientation part of the display and if the yacht orientation is not available it displays - nothing. We have a fluxgate compass and have never not had one - I'm just guessing and try to come up with educated options.

The answer to me is, clarify exactly what is being displayed (as if we don't understand B&G might not either) then telephone their local office.

An area of concern I might have is that this is a case of mixing transducers from other suppliers - which is always a contentious issue. You question on NMEA is valid - and the information will be in the manual.

Jonathan
 
Thanks for all the comments so far.

Sorry, my use of 'log' was confusing - I mean the total distance travelled. I get nothing on the Vulcan when I display this but I can see it on the bluetooth app for the DST810 and it is configured to send it. I get the same reading (yes it seems very high on the picture and the current wasn't 4 kn against, so I have to calibrate the DST810 to correct that which I've not done yet) for boat speed, STW and water speed (I have no idea what these different options mean TBH) when I display those on the Vulcan.

I get apparent wind direction, speed and angle, but only true wind speed and angle from the NASA sensor, which is using it's own converter so it's NMEA2000. I can see these in the number displays, with just --- for the TWD, and I get the apparent wind on the dedicated sail steer display but not on the map overlay.

Next time I sail I will take more photos, but hopefully that better explains it than my first post. TIA
 
Not sure if you have a different Navico tech support in Denmark but the guys in the UK are excellent. I have green same unit but it’s inputs are N2k so make sure the sequence from the converter is correct. Also within the V7 there is an input selector menu which I had difficulty in finding, that sorted an input issue I had.
 
I took the chance to grab some photos this morning. Obviously the boat is moored so this won't resolve the lack of TWD, but as you can see in the first photo the DST810 provides a water distance:
InkedPXL_20210624_092544420_LI.jpg

But it isn't available as a source for the Vulcan under distance log:
InkedPXL_20210624_092806374_LI.jpg

There is also the missing wind indicator on the sail steer overlay for the map compared to the the sail steer screen:
InkedPXL_20210624_091906372_LI.jpg

I've actually had a reply from B&A now, thanks to a tweet, but it's not been a reply that gives me much confidence in how this will end.
 
Neeves said:
Is there any reason you have not included your query to B&G and their answer (or a summary of same)

Jonathan
Click to expand...
They asked if the sensors were attached to the network and NMEA 2000. Now given I'd already told them I was getting all the other data, you'd think that was easy to work out.
 
I’d try changing group ‘default’ to whatever else is available. Also my Simrad NSSs refuse to allow radar overlay onto a chart without an electronic compass on the system, even when moving.
 
Have you made it clear to B&G that you do not have a flux gate compass in the system. They may assume you have one in the circuit (because it may be necessary and they assume you know this) but a number of us suggest it might be essential. When I bought my unit I was told I needed one, but I also have radar. I already had a Ramarine fluxgate but I opted to run two systems, the old Raymanine. and the new Simrad as the cost of the Simrad flux gate was not critical. My focus was on replacing the Raymanrine radar.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Have you made it clear to B&G that you do not have a flux gate compass in the system. They may assume you have one in the circuit (because it may be necessary and they assume you know this) but a number of us suggest it might be essential. When I bought my unit I was told I needed one, but I also have radar. I already had a Ramarine fluxgate but I opted to run two systems, the old Raymanine. and the new Simrad as the cost of the Simrad flux gate was not critical. My focus was on replacing the Raymanrine radar.

Jonathan
Click to expand...
Yep I've also told them that.

If I need the compass that's absolutely fine, any recommendations? I'm coastal sailing so it's not actually essential and I don't really want to spend a fortune on one.
 
Jamie Dundee said:
I’d try changing group ‘default’ to whatever else is available. Also my Simrad NSSs refuse to allow radar overlay onto a chart without an electronic compass on the system, even when moving.
Click to expand...
I have no other groups. I wonder if it's worth adding the water distance to a new group to see if that makes it see it?
 
DanLXIX said:
Yep I've also told them that.

If I need the compass that's absolutely fine, any recommendations? I'm coastal sailing so it's not actually essential and I don't really want to spend a fortune on one.
Click to expand...
The cheaper option I got was the GS25 (Simrad) as I don’t need the bells and whistles required by an autopilot (Precision 9).
 
Jamie Dundee said:
The cheaper option I got was the GS25 (Simrad) as I don’t need the bells and whistles required by an autopilot (Precision 9).
Click to expand...
GS25/point-1/ZG100 are all almost identical except that the Point-1 will stop transmitting heading if there is another heading source connected. Guess how I know :-)
I'm about to fit a Garmin steady cast but as I haven't fitted it yet I can't say how well it talks with B&G.
 
I suspect our flux gate is the same as Jamie's as we did not envisage buying a an autopilot - the Raymarie has given us good service.

But - I think you need to step back a bit and decide if you might want to extend what you have to include, say an autopilot. If you do then the cheapest flux gate may not be applicable.

Separately you need to confirm whether the installation of a fluxgate and integration of same will solve the problem. The answer lies with B&G - so you need to talk to them.

The reason we have two standalone systems is the problem to which Buck alludes - is it possible to integrate units from different manufacturers. The theory says yes - in practice it is not so easy. Additionally the software for radar is not covered by NMEA, or that was my understanding and if you wanted Radar from one specific manufacturer - you had to buy their MFD (this may have changed)

Jonathan
 
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