MattS
Well-Known Member
Can you link to any more info on this? What new products are expected?
B&G vs Raymarine plotter features for cruising sailing
- Thread starter MattS
- Start date
Can you link to any more info on this? What new products are expected?
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
The ST2000+ will integrate with a new MFD, up to a point. It will steer to a waypoint or wind, but you cannot control it from the MFD (engage it or put in in standby etc), the integration will be exactly the same no matter which brand of MFD you fit.
You will not be able to directly connect it to a Raymarine or B&G MFD, because neither of them support NMEA 0183, Garmin MFDs still have an 0183 port. If you currently have other Raymarine devices you can retain them and connect them to a new MFD from Raymarine, Garmin or B&G with a converter kit from Raymarine and you can connect the tiller pilot to one of the existing Seatalk devices.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
The Echomap is the "budget" plotter, basically, it does not support radar and will not allow you to mirror it to a tablet/phone, but it does come with pre-installed charts for the whole of the UK. It's the rough equivalent to the Raymarine Element. GPSMAP models do support radar and can be mirrored but do not have pre-installed charts. Most models support sonar, always denoted by the model number and clearly stated in all model descriptions. Other than that, it's mostly down to screen size and choice of buttons, or not. Garmin will no longer be producing MFDs with buttons, anyone wanting buttons will need to purchase a separate remote.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Paul can you explain why the 1000 series with buttons is £1000 less expensive than the 8000 series without? Which have been on the market long enough to be near obsolete? Which likely to be slow due to old chips? I found it hard to answer these and that pushed me further towards B&G whose range was extremely simple with just two models in various sizes. To be fair I also made the choice because I liked the modern look of the B&G 
ctva
Well-Known Member
It is worth considering changing to an N2K network and ditch the 0183 stuff. I did this as I said a few years ago. Took all the Raymarine ST60 instruments, SH plotter out, sold them on ebay (amazed at the price I got selling each item individually) and the net cost to me for B&G wind and triducer, 2 displays, Vulcan 7 and all cabling was about£800.
As a separate addition I had to replace the old autopilot as I broke it a year later with the Raymarine Wheel Pilot. Separate display but all cabling via the N2K network and seamlessly interfaces 80% of functions with the B&G.
As a separate addition I had to replace the old autopilot as I broke it a year later with the Raymarine Wheel Pilot. Separate display but all cabling via the N2K network and seamlessly interfaces 80% of functions with the B&G.
jwfrary
Well-Known Member
I was told exciting releases, but nothing more detailed than that
lustyd
Well-Known Member
manufacturers always think their new stuff is exciting. At this stage it would be exciting to see some stock of existing models, having spent most of the summer waiting for parts.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Paul can you explain why the 1000 series with buttons is £1000 less expensive than the 8000 series without? Which have been on the market long enough to be near obsolete? Which likely to be slow due to old chips? I found it hard to answer these and that pushed me further towards B&G whose range was extremely simple with just two models in various sizes. To be fair I also made the choice because I liked the modern look of the B&G
No idea how Garmin (or anyone else) arrives at their prices. I suspect the full HD touchscreen adds a fair bit and the newer models may well be cheaper to build. If i was buying today i'd be looking at the x23 series MFDs
pmartin127
Active Member
I fitted a Raymarine Axiom on my boat about three years ago and have it connected to a Raymarine autopilot (ST4000 I think) and a Raymarine AIS receiver. As you would expect they all play nicely together.
What really irritates me (and I have no idea whether Garmin and B&G are better in this respect) is that you can't configure the plotter's ip address to match the subnet that you might have for your phone, tablets router etc so if you want to use RayControl (or RayView) you have to join either a phone or a tablet to the plotter's wifi which then means you can't use the phone or the tablet for other normal uses which means disconnecting and re-connecting.
I brought this up with Raymarine at the last SIBS (2019?) and apparently "it's on the road-map".
I paired it with my phone to do an update last week and needless to say this hasn't been addressed.
What really irritates me (and I have no idea whether Garmin and B&G are better in this respect) is that you can't configure the plotter's ip address to match the subnet that you might have for your phone, tablets router etc so if you want to use RayControl (or RayView) you have to join either a phone or a tablet to the plotter's wifi which then means you can't use the phone or the tablet for other normal uses which means disconnecting and re-connecting.
I brought this up with Raymarine at the last SIBS (2019?) and apparently "it's on the road-map".
I paired it with my phone to do an update last week and needless to say this hasn't been addressed.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
My B&G plotters and radar seem happy to use an IP from my Teltonika router over Ethernet. There's no need to connect the wifi on the plotter as devices connect to the boat wifi.
Edit to add - there's no Wifi option for the radar anyway so Ethernet cabling is already in place to share radar between two plotters. The plotters were, however, happy to get an IP from the router over Wifi and I could use the various plotter features on that Wifi network from phone or tablet (or PC!). It's not as slick as I'd like, but it does work well. In Raymarine's defence there's no reason a few years ago that they'd have anticipated a router on board most boats.
Edit to add - there's no Wifi option for the radar anyway so Ethernet cabling is already in place to share radar between two plotters. The plotters were, however, happy to get an IP from the router over Wifi and I could use the various plotter features on that Wifi network from phone or tablet (or PC!). It's not as slick as I'd like, but it does work well. In Raymarine's defence there's no reason a few years ago that they'd have anticipated a router on board most boats.
pmartin127
Active Member
I'd agree re anticipating routers on boats a few years ago lusty but there have been at least two updates since I installed the plotter so in my opinion Raymarine have had ample time to address this.
I'd consider that's a plus point for your B&G plotters if they'll take an ip address from your router.
Other than my issue I'm very happy with the Raymarine plotter.
I'd consider that's a plus point for your B&G plotters if they'll take an ip address from your router.
Other than my issue I'm very happy with the Raymarine plotter.
matt1
Well-Known Member
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Not sure if my Garmin will connect to my Teltonica router, either wirelessly or by ethernet, need to take the MFD out of the pod soon to connect a sonar transducer, i'll have a play.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree how disapointing that is, but it's actually a much bigger change than you'd think and will affect the usability in other ways. Effectively this change will mean the plotter has to ask for an IP on the network before deciding to start advertising addresses from its own DHCP service. All that takes time, and if you have two plotters then both will need to undertake the same process with collision detection to ensure they don't both advertise on different ranges. While all that is happening your radar might time out since it didn't get an IP address on the network.
I've no idea how B&G fixed this, I assume prayer and luck judging by other parts of the system!
lustyd
Well-Known Member
On the B&G it's the radar cable, hence my comment on another thread recently. I cut the radar cable below the mast and hooked it up to the switch, and cut the Ethernet cables with B&G ends and crimped an RJ45 to the other end and voila fully Ethernet connected boat. Obviously more faff than your average yachty wants to deal with by a long shot, but for me not really an issue aside from buying some "outdoor" Ethernet cable which I now have about 80m spare remaining!
davidej
Well-Known Member
Another Garmin fan
Ray marine display and menus are absolutely cr*p by comparison
Ray marine display and menus are absolutely cr*p by comparison
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I've done similar before, cutting Raymarine plugs off and using standard switches rather than the expensive Raymarine "marine" version, but not connected to a router. I currently use the Teltonica just to have a wireless network that uses my phone as a hotspot and connects my tablet, laptop and Pi together.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I could give several examples of why i like Garmin and consider their support to be the best, but one recent one probably sums it all up.
Customer 1) Raymarine i60 wind display, out of warranty, steams up inside. I contacted Raymarine who said "it's out of warranty and it's not hermetically sealed anyway. Cost of a new one was £430
Customer 2) Actually, me. I bought a 2nd hand Garmin autopilot control from Ebay for my own boat. When it arrived it had a faint rub mark on the screen, not too noticeable, but i'm fussy. I called Garmin, who offered me a "refurbished" one for £126. Look like new when it arrived and had a new bezel too.
Customer 1) Raymarine i60 wind display, out of warranty, steams up inside. I contacted Raymarine who said "it's out of warranty and it's not hermetically sealed anyway. Cost of a new one was £430
Customer 2) Actually, me. I bought a 2nd hand Garmin autopilot control from Ebay for my own boat. When it arrived it had a faint rub mark on the screen, not too noticeable, but i'm fussy. I called Garmin, who offered me a "refurbished" one for £126. Look like new when it arrived and had a new bezel too.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
That makes sense, if there's no reason to wire everything then I wouldn't put the effort in, I mainly did because the switch was already there and I have two plotters that need radar. I can see this style of installation getting much more popular over the coming years though as people realise they can work on board and Ethernet on plotters becomes more normal for comms.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Probably worth mentioning that Garmin support varies wildly by country so in the UK and US you'll get amazing support but other places you may be lucky to get a reply. I've had similar to you though in the UK, my Fenix 5+ was replaced without question and was out of warranty, and they've sent me parts for my GPSMap handhelds on multiple occasions free of charge. My bike pedals have had all kinds of parts sent out proactively too "just in case". Yes, they make bike pedals too!