Avon Liferafts

Magnum

Magnum

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It's a bit strange asking if a liferaft is any good. Hopefully most of you won't know.

However, I want to buy a 6 man valise and am looking at the Avon range.

Why a valise? The only place for a canister raft is up on the roof but I don't fancy that. Also there's this nice accessible storage area designed for liferafts in the cockpit (forward cupboard with door to right of table).

img2666sp5.jpg


Dimensions of the cupboard are 81cm(w)x26cm(h)x49.5cm(d). On longer passages the valise could be left out in the open cockpit and secured to the table leg so as to offer emergency release should the worst happen quickly.

The Modula range is light but very expensive. I'm not too concerned about the price providing I'm getting something for the outlay but can't see where the value is compared to the Ocean range. Here's a comparison of cost (just Google'd) for the 6-man valise.

Modula £1849
Coastline £1075
Ocean £1302

I'd appreciate the panel's view on each of these.
 
We have had a couple of customers with the modular system and whilst small and light the service costs are horendous, a valise needs an annual service, a canister is usually three year intervals, a service is arround £200 per year for a 'normal' £450 for a modular, Canister is only arround £250 every third year, makes a big differece. See if you can not find a home for a cannister (tender garage?)put it in the cockpit when on trips and save a small fortune!
 
Magnum

Maybe Jimmy_the_Builder will post here.
I was impressed with the brand new raft he bought for his P42.
I cant remember how many people it took but it was VERY cheap and I'm sure it would have fitted in that locker.
I think he paid about £500 for it and it didnt need servicing for 3 years.
I've just spent over that for a service on our Zodiac canister liferaft.
IMHO just buy the cheap one, throw it away after 3 years and but a new one.

Jimmy?????
 
If you can bear to read the thread over the last week on Scuttlebutt on the subject you might come to the conclusion that whatever you buy is a waste of money as there are no cases of a MOBO needing a raft in UK waters (or on a UK registered leisure vessel) in the last 12 years - and very few yachts. (The situation for commercial fishing vessels is rather different as the MAIB reports will show).

On what little evidence there is the most basic of the new breed of raft at c £600 for a 6 man will perform just as well as any others.

To get to this conclusion you have to read the Marine Accident Investigation Branch reports and the same from the Irish equivalent MCIB all available on their websites. Make sobering reading.

Don't want to get into a long winded exchange as this has already taken place twice in the last 3 months or so on Scuttlebutt with now well over 450 posts reflecting all shades of opinion, 130 of which are on about page 9 of the current threads.
 
I don't disagree, but I guess he might have some requirements driven by the boat registration, in order to avoid potential legal/insurance troubles.
Afaik, this applies frinstance to boats registered in Italy, France and Spain.
Dunno about Cayman Islands though.
 
Evening all

I bought one of these on the basis that it was cheap and has a three year service interval. At this price you can just chuck it away after three years and buy another one.

Cheers
Jimmy
 
Mark,

As mentioned to you previously I have ordered a new Sunseeker Manhattan 60 and also needed to purchase new liferafts like you.

I have gone for a 8 person Canister and a 4 person Valise working on the basis that I can deploy the 4 man raft if there is only 2 of us on board and the canister for 4 persons and above.

Also like you price is not the major consideration but I do tend to ask why a product is so cheap (possibly lacking in quality?) as well as why is it so much more in price than others (overpriced?)

In the end I went for Avon Ocean liferafts because of good design and quality in manufacture as well as good servicing agents thoughout the Med.

Not saying the cheaper makes/models are rubbish just that they did not appear to be to the same quality as Avon.

Sad thing is that they are made in France by Zodiac who own then rather than in the UK.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sad thing is that they are made in France by Zodiac who own then rather than in the UK.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with the quality of the Zodiac rafts - just the French???

We have a Zodiac raft that we bought second hand three years ago.
Just had it serviced.
We went to one of the Ocean Safety Open Days.
They open your life raft for you and inflate it so that you can climb in and see that it was actually a life raft that you bought and not just a "blow up doll"!!!.
Great experience - then they took it away for servicing.
However the service needed lots of new stuff (flares etc) so the cost rose to about £500 for the service - Jimmy's cheap one seems the way to go.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have gone for a 8 person Canister and a 4 person Valise working on the basis that I can deploy the 4 man raft if there is only 2 of us on board and the canister for 4 persons and above.

[/ QUOTE ]I'd rather try to install both in such way that deploying either is feasible even by one person alone, if your concerns are due to the weight of the canister.
And I'd rather deploy the bigger one even with only 2 persons on board.
It wouldn't be much of a saving, to leave it sinking together with the boat, anyway...
 
Nothing wrong with the quality of the Zodiac rafts - just the French???

Hurricane ,

I never said that there is anything wrong with Zodiac products, after all that is who is manufacturing the Avon product. I was just lamenting at the loss of British manufacturers.

Mapism,

I took advice from several liferaft manufacturers and they all said that 2 people in a 8 man liferaft would be dangerous as in a heavy sea without the correct ballast (people) there would be a big risk of the liferaft overturning.

I am not an expert so took their advice but would say that if we had to deploy the liferaft in earnest the last worry I would have is what I have left on the stricken vessel.

My family and friends come first, S*D the boat thats insured.
 
Is that really what you've been told by manufacturers?
That's a bit scaring, considering that you might have just one liferaft onboard.
Besides, shouldn't underwater bags be much more effective at stabilizing the raft, than adding weight above the waterline?!?
 
You are correct that the underwater stabalizing pockets/bags play a very important part in the safety of the liferaft.

Against this the larger liferaft presents a much bigger surface for windage and hence makes the whole thing possibly unstable.

From what I have read on the subject, the advice I received has been bourn out in practice.
 
Certainly the advice on the sea survival course is that it's better to overload a raft than underload one from the stability perspective. Another issue is that trwo people in an 8 man raft will get thrown around all over the place in a sea and likely injure each other.
 
I like your solution DougH. I too think that the Avon Ocean range are very well specified and if I'm every unfortunate enough to need to deploy a liferaft I want it to be a good one.

So this is what I'm minded to buy - 2 x Avon Ocean Valise liferafts - 1 x 4 man + 1 x 6 man.

Most of the time there will just be me and SWMBO onboard so would use 4 man which is still good with 2 guests.

When 6 onboard then 6 man raft ideal.

On occasions when 10 people might be onboard I'll have enough capacity in 2 rafts.

Also quite nice having the redundancy of an extra raft just in case one doesn't inflate.

The problem with valise rafts is they have to be out of the locker, launched and then the painter cut. Out of the locker is easy - just place in cockpit whilst under way. Fix weak link to painter which is secured to a cleat or other solid fixture giving the option of manually cutting painter or having weak link break in event of rapid sinking.

Sound like a plan?
 
Why not just take it out the locker if the boat starts to sink? I keep my canister raft in a locker, behind a toolbox and some other stuff. If I ever need the raft, then it takes seconds to move the tools out of the way.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Why not just take it out the locker if the boat starts to sink? I keep my canister raft in a locker, behind a toolbox and some other stuff. If I ever need the raft, then it takes seconds to move the tools out of the way.

[/ QUOTE ]
I suppose because it's another thing to do when in the situation where the boat is sinking fast there may be other priorities. It seems no hardship at all to just leave it out in the cockpit, painter attached, on longer passages. Of course for loafing close to shore I agree, leave it in the hatch.
 
Mark,

Sounds a good workable plan to me and you have obviously given the matter some thought.

Currently I am compiling set procedures for Mob / Damage Control / Evacuation etc based on 2 - 10 people being on the boat and intend to put them on the forum for constructive comments before finalisation.

I would certainly welcome your future comments on the subject.

Doug
 
I'm puzzled about the tying it on and using a weak link. Canisters permanently lashed down should have a hydrostatic release to release them, but AFAIK that doesn't guarantee they will inflate. The painter on our new 8 man is 11m long so the boat would have to have sunk 35+ feet before the raft automatically inflated. If the boat goes down in 10m of water after catching fire, you'll be waiting a long time for it to deploy itself.

The standard procedure is printed on the tin. Tie the painter to a secure point on the boat, lob it over the side and tug on the painter till it goes pop, climb in then cut the painter with the crappy floating knife provided. It matters not whether it is a valise or canister, as long as you can hoof it overboard sharpish if you need to. Which makes me wonder about a couple of biggish Sunseekers (not that they';re only ones guilty, I'm sure) where the raft is on top of the hard top. Fine if she sinks gracefully, a la Titanic, but probably not so helpful if the bugger goes up in flames and you want to get at it quickly...
 
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