Avoiding Wrapping the Spinnaker when Gybing

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daibachsail

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Just recently had a good run of 50 miles from Roscoff under spinnaker but was disappointed to wrap it twice ie both times we gybed! For a cruising crew of 3 this is always an interesting moment but I do not recall this ever happening before in 30+ years of cruising (OK I admit we do not use it that often!). Obviously we could take it down and put back but I am seeking some practical advice which does not require taking down but avoids a wrap - a difficult situation in my book and well worth avoiding. It is a new (secondhand) boat to me so that might have contributed.
Thanks in anticipation
 
daibachsail said:
Just recently had a good run of 50 miles from Roscoff under spinnaker but was disappointed to wrap it twice ie both times we gybed! For a cruising crew of 3 this is always an interesting moment but I do not recall this ever happening before in 30+ years of cruising (OK I admit we do not use it that often!). Obviously we could take it down and put back but I am seeking some practical advice which does not require taking down but avoids a wrap - a difficult situation in my book and well worth avoiding. It is a new (secondhand) boat to me so that might have contributed.
Thanks in anticipation
Click to expand...

As a spinnaker trimmer, I always blamed the helmsman for turning too fast.
 
Really need more info on the circumstances of how it wrapped (assuming around the forestay). Perhaps you were rolling quite a lot in light breezes, which caused the spinnaker to collapse?
 
It is difficult to give a simple answer as there are so many variables that can potentially influence the approach you take eg size of boat, size of spinnaker, types of sheeting, types and position of winches, sea state, wind strength, crew agility etc, , but a crew of three with a well coordinated approach and good communication can often gybe a spinnaker successfully, avoiding the dreaded wrap.

The main success factor is to keep the spinnaker filled and in control throughout the gybe. Careful helming, so the boat is dead downwind while the pole and mainsail are gybed can be important in achieving this.

Keeping the kite full and in control when the pole is moved to the new side is easier if the boat has a twin sheet and guy system - the spinnaker can be flown by someone in the cockpit using the two sheets throughout the gybe- (pulling down on barber haulers on the sheets can help to keep it stable if it is windy). Good timing between the helm ( who will also need to gybe the main), and the person flying the kite is important in moving the kite across the front of the boat as the main gybes and until the new guy can be wound in

If you are using single sheet and guy system it is often more difficult to keep the kite full, as it can collapse if the bowman has a problem releasing the pole from the old guy or attaching the pole to the new guy, but the same principles apply

When cruising our 34 footer with two on board, (and using single sheet and guy), we often prefer to snuff the spinnaker before the gybe, get all settled on the new gybe and then unsnuff it ( or de-snuff it?). A few minutes running bareheaded on a cross channel passage will not make a big difference to your ETA
 
We have two snatch blocks on the rail on our 34' just ahead of the cap shrouds.
We normally use it for the guy however when we want to gybe we lock the sheet in the leeward snatch block and then we sail on a dead run and gybe the main.
We find that running both sheets through the snatch blocks reduces the kite rolling, it also makes a pole end to end swap easier for the bowman.
Make sure you gybe run to run and not broad reach to broad reach.
 
If you are cruising.... get a sock.. You can handle the sail even two up or at a push by yourself. You are not racing so taking five minutes to gybe does not matter.
 
lpdsn said:
As a spinnaker trimmer, I always blamed the helmsman for turning too fast.
Click to expand...

This. But also, as a helmsman I always blamed the sheet trimmers for not letting the kite fly ahead of the boat (but level). If the new guy is tight when it is pulled inboard (I mean the rope, not the crew member) that can upset the level flying of the kite. Rolling can be reduced by kicker, but let it off when you actually gybe the main.

It's all a matter of timing and judgement really.
 
Javelin said:
We have two snatch blocks on the rail on our 34' just ahead of the cap shrouds.
We normally use it for the guy however when we want to gybe we lock the sheet in the leeward snatch block and then we sail on a dead run and gybe the main.
We find that running both sheets through the snatch blocks reduces the kite rolling, it also makes a pole end to end swap easier for the bowman.
Make sure you gybe run to run and not broad reach to broad reach.
Click to expand...
Similar.
We use 'twinning lines' AKA stranglers, to pull the guy down and forward to the toe rail. A block running on the guy/sheet, pulled down to a smaller block on the rail. Putting the new twinning line on before gybing can make the kite a lot more stable, less likely to swing behind the main and collapse.

The other way to stop the kite wrapping around the forestay is to hoist/unroll the jib.
Also, correct steering will keep the kite full.
 
Tomahawk said:
If you are cruising.... get a sock.. You can handle the sail even two up or at a push by yourself. You are not racing so taking five minutes to gybe does not matter.
Click to expand...

Can't argue with that.
snuff the kite, gybe, mark the chart, put kettle on or whatever, then unsnuff when ready. Losing a couple of knots for 5 minutes does not matter.
 
GrahamD said:
Keeping the kite full and in control when the pole is moved to the new side is easier if the boat has a twin sheet and guy system - the spinnaker can be flown by someone in the cockpit using the two sheets throughout the gybe- (pulling down on barber haulers on the sheets can help to keep it stable if it is windy). Good timing between the helm ( who will also need to gybe the main), and the person flying the kite is important in moving the kite across the front of the boat as the main gybes and until the new guy can be wound in

If you are using single sheet and guy system it is often more difficult to keep the kite full, as it can collapse if the bowman has a problem releasing the pole from the old guy or attaching the pole to the new guy, but the same principles apply
Click to expand...

+1 to this advice. Single sheet systems can easily get out of hand on bigger boats leading to a wrap. On the other hand twin sheet systems need more bodies - which is why dousing and resetting the kite is often the best approach.
 
Thanks for some really helpful suggestions. We normally use the spinnaker for racing so not keen on the snuffer, however, the second snatch block and unrolling some job (why di I not think of that) will be explored on future trips. Thanks for coaching an oldie!
 
Snuffers can get tangled around the forestay as easy as the spinnaker. A 55 ft Dutch Contest came into Lowestoft last week & the crew spent a couple of ours trying to untangle the snuffer which went around the forestay with half the spinnaker still out. personally I think they are useless. I have one & it sits in the garage which is best place for it.
Either unfurl a bit of jib or rig 3 lines from the mast to the forestay so that when the jib is hoisted they go to the top but drop down as the jib is lowered.
 
Your problem might just have been a matter of timing when putting the main through the jybe. If you get the main centred by the helmsman holding it or by sheeting it in then the spinnaker should remain flying dead downwind as you put its pole over. Don't jybe the main across until after the new spinnaker guy is safely in the pole and you have got some load onto it. Nice video containing how to do it double-handed at https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-S3-IleeMc These lads leave the main until the spinnaker is set on the new side each time.
 
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