anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-Known Member
It very much does happen in real life! Putting the ensign up actually signifies retirement from a race.
Avoiding Cowes Week races
- Thread starter sgr143
- Start date
lw395
Well-Known Member
Last century, I'm sure there was something in the racing rules about not wearing and ensign while racing. To fly an ensign signified having retired from the race. I can't find anything in the current rules.
Racing cross channel etc is not an issue, we have K or GBR on the sails.
It's handy to fly an ensign when not racing, because the racing boat coming up from astern then knows they treat the cruiser as being overtaken, instead of probably windward boat as they point higher.
Racing cross channel etc is not an issue, we have K or GBR on the sails.
It's handy to fly an ensign when not racing, because the racing boat coming up from astern then knows they treat the cruiser as being overtaken, instead of probably windward boat as they point higher.
Seajet
...
Not offshore it doesn't and even inshore the coastguard may have something to say.
The ensign shows nationality of those in command, a sail number can be anyone who bought it a few years ago.
I'd have thought retirement is signified by VHF and taking down the pennant.
The ensign shows nationality of those in command, a sail number can be anyone who bought it a few years ago.
I'd have thought retirement is signified by VHF and taking down the pennant.
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anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-Known Member
It happened on every offshore (and inshore) race I've ever done. RORC, JOG etc..
DJE
Well-Known Member
Does it? I thought it showed the country of registration of the vessel.
Resolution
Well-Known Member
A quick scan of the Cowes Week NOR #12 sets out the requirement to display the relevant class flag while racing. No mention that I can see of ensigns or other flags. The Sailing Instructions require a VHF call to notify of retirement. So lw395 is correct...........
.......but when I was racing (last century mostly), it was customary to indicate retirement by dropping the class flag and raising the ensign. Still a simple way of alerting other yachts to your racing or non-racing status, which seems polite thing to do.
.......but when I was racing (last century mostly), it was customary to indicate retirement by dropping the class flag and raising the ensign. Still a simple way of alerting other yachts to your racing or non-racing status, which seems polite thing to do.
Seajet
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Nope it's not like a tanker with ' Panama ' written on the back, it should and usually does show nationality of the skipper / owner on board at the time.
You should see the size of the ensigns on ( barely ) mobile houseboats chartered by the Swiss on the Burgundy canals - about the size of HMS Victorys' main
Still You have taught me something about ensigns when racing I didn't realise thanks - I've raced a lot of top dinghies but not yachts at that level, I don't agree with sailing without an ensign but that's me.
DJE
Well-Known Member
I think there might be a difference between vessels in home waters and those going foreign.
I don't know about other juristrictons but British registered vessels (yachts or tankers) are required to wear their British ensign when entering or leaving a foreign port and on demand. So the ensign matches the country of registration.
Vessels in home waters presumably can fly whatever they like including the charter skipper's home flag.
Seajet
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I think that all changed after 9/11 - for instance I'm pretty careful my boat wears the red ensign in Portsmouth nowadays, not that it means much in reality as any berk can sail under false colours until actual combat, I doubt those speedboats attacking the USS Cole bothered with niceties but it might have got them a touch closer...
In the early 1980's before solar panels my boat had a total loss electrical system, I had to take the battery to garages to get it recharged so only put the nav lights on at night when somebody else was close; this wasn't such a wise move off Portland, we found an equally unlit Lynx hovering not far above the masthead no doubt using night vision goggles checking us out, I'd hope this scrutiny would be a lot more severe these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06_CkYvIik
In the early 1980's before solar panels my boat had a total loss electrical system, I had to take the battery to garages to get it recharged so only put the nav lights on at night when somebody else was close; this wasn't such a wise move off Portland, we found an equally unlit Lynx hovering not far above the masthead no doubt using night vision goggles checking us out, I'd hope this scrutiny would be a lot more severe these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06_CkYvIik
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Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Was on passage in a small coaster,Hamble fuel jetty to Cowes ,when verbally set upon by a Yachting harridan f& blinding from her bow ,we had slowed to avoid too much interference with what was obviously a race but that was not enough obviously
Seajet
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That's the time to have a Super-Soaker handy
johnalison
Well-Known Member
I was on passage off Broadstairs a while ago when a dinghy, may a Sprite, came across my path and shouted at me for being on his racing line. Whether he heard me replying that I didn't have a copy of his race instructions on board I shall never know.
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-Known Member
None of this is relevant to avoiding racing fleets from Cowes (the current answer to which is - don't go into the Cowes or Hamble marinas), but anyway.
As I understand it, any unregistered vessel, of any size, which is British owned and skippered may fly a red ensign.
The Merchant Shipping Act covers registered vessels, and in particular:-
Duty to show British flag.
(1) Subject to subsection (2) below, a British ship, other than a fishing vessel, shall hoist the red ensign or other proper national colours—
(a) on a signal being made to the ship by one of Her Majesty’s ships (including any ship under the command of a commissioned naval officer); and
(b) on entering or leaving any foreign port; and
(c) in the case of ships of 50 or more tons gross tonnage, on entering or leaving any British port.
(2) Subsection (1)(c) above does not apply to a small ship (as defined in section 1(2)) registered under Part II.
All of which means:-
Under (a) above, having his ensign up already, Seajet saved himself being challenged off Portland that dark dark night.
Under (b) above we're all clear to carry on racing to ports foreign without ensigns, but must pray that the finish line is outside said port. This may mean that I can protest the whole French Fastnet entry, all of whom passed the breakwater in Plymouth without theirs. And the septics.
And (c) doesn't bother many of us. (For clarity, (2) says that a small ship can also be defined as sub 24 Metres loa).
As I understand it, any unregistered vessel, of any size, which is British owned and skippered may fly a red ensign.
The Merchant Shipping Act covers registered vessels, and in particular:-
Duty to show British flag.
(1) Subject to subsection (2) below, a British ship, other than a fishing vessel, shall hoist the red ensign or other proper national colours—
(a) on a signal being made to the ship by one of Her Majesty’s ships (including any ship under the command of a commissioned naval officer); and
(b) on entering or leaving any foreign port; and
(c) in the case of ships of 50 or more tons gross tonnage, on entering or leaving any British port.
(2) Subsection (1)(c) above does not apply to a small ship (as defined in section 1(2)) registered under Part II.
All of which means:-
Under (a) above, having his ensign up already, Seajet saved himself being challenged off Portland that dark dark night.
Under (b) above we're all clear to carry on racing to ports foreign without ensigns, but must pray that the finish line is outside said port. This may mean that I can protest the whole French Fastnet entry, all of whom passed the breakwater in Plymouth without theirs. And the septics.
And (c) doesn't bother many of us. (For clarity, (2) says that a small ship can also be defined as sub 24 Metres loa).
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
Err no it doesn't.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
Getting back, vaguely, to the original post, I watched the postponed cat racing yesterday and it set me wondering.
Leaving aside the suicidal stupidity of sailing a Snapdragon 24 through the middle of a race where big cats are doing 30+ knots on the ragged edge of control, do the organisers of these races have any legal powers to prevent me doing so? Did Southampton VTS set up an exclusion zone?
Leaving aside the suicidal stupidity of sailing a Snapdragon 24 through the middle of a race where big cats are doing 30+ knots on the ragged edge of control, do the organisers of these races have any legal powers to prevent me doing so? Did Southampton VTS set up an exclusion zone?
robertj
Well-Known Member
He was the stand on vessel. I don’t care if we were if he’d confronted me I’d have backed down for safety sake, he looked a serious contender to me lol.
We had a quiet apologetic word after with the irate chap and an educational word with our crew member who was white faced at the time lol
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sgr143
Well-Known Member
To get back to original post... Set off early, motored up the North Channel, rounded Calshot Spit port-hand channel marker about 10. The Cowes week fleets seemed to be having the marine equivalent of slow bicycle races off Cowes, well to the South of us. Then we put the sails up and got rained on a lot on the way to Lymington.