Avoidance of collision/Waterskiers

TheOrs

TheOrs

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Hi

(Disclaimer: I've crewed a yacht (once), and I own a windsurfer, but my passion is Powerboats/waterskiing)

My reason for being here is I'd just like to canvass your opinions on collision avoidance re: yachts/waterskiers.

So here are a few questions; (please be gentle with me /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

- I'm approaching you from your starboard, you're under sail & I'm towing a waterskier. Would you expect to give way to me?

- I'm approaching you from your port side, you're on your motor & I'm towing a waterskier. Would you give way? (i.e. do you consider me to be limited in manoeuvrability?)

- We are approaching head-on. The wind is blowing from your starboard side. Which way would you expect (prefer?) me to turn?

My point here is not to attempt to change peoples opinions but to understand what you will be thinking as I approach at 20-30kts. For me, when I am towing, the worst situation would be for the other guy to do something unexpected. (It's difficult for us 'proper' boaters to anticipate how you 'yachties' will react. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

Cheers
 
Generally, as the owner of a sailing boat that usually does about 3-5 knots, I'm almost stationary relative to you, and there is little I can do to get out of your way if you turn and head towards me on a collision course.
I can't recall a single instance where I've had a problem with a speedboat with or without a waterskier in tow in the last 20 years, the nearest misses I've had are with other sailing cruisers (on port tack), a big MoBo once failing to peer out from the flying bridge and most commonly sailing dinghies choosing to tack under my bows and capsize.
 
If you're going to get so close to a converging yacht that you will affected by which way it turns then surely you are much, much too close already. At your speed you have to treat every sailing vessel as a rock and go around it, preferably without wrapping your tow-rope around the mast.
 
um, well you said be gentle but i am sorely tempted not to be....

Firstly, if towing a water skier you should surely keep well away from everyone - cos the tow is a live person, and you definitely can't "hope" that things will go your way. You are a power vessel, and not "limited in abaility to manoevre" at all. So approaching another vessel means you turn away, not stand on.

Secondly - manouvering is what skiboats do, isn't it? So you're almost certain to turn and turn and turn again. I mean it's not as tho skiboats generally set a course for Cherbourg from Poolee is it, really? They come towards us, anyone, and bear away. and bear away again. This probably makes you the give way vessel more often than not.

at 20-30 knots, you shd surely take the initiative and turn away (preferably NOT to port) so your skitrip is a series of right handed turns.
 
I'm in the reciprocal situation; I've driven a ski boat once!

- I'm approaching you from your starboard, you're under sail & I'm towing a waterskier. Would you expect to give way to me?

No, I would not. Its my right of way, but that's not what I'm actually thinking of.

I consider that, since you are moving much faster than I, the safest course for me to take will be to hold my course and speed, rather than to do anything that you may not have anticipated.

- I'm approaching you from your port side, you're on your motor & I'm towing a waterskier. Would you give way? (i.e. do you consider me to be limited in manoeuvrability?)

No, I would not, and no I do not. In both cases, your speed an manoevrability is greater than mine, even when you are towing a skier.

- We are approaching head-on. The wind is blowing from your starboard side. Which way would you expect (prefer?) me to turn?

Very good point. In general I would prefer you to pass me port to port, as per Colregs, because that is what I will be expecting, regardless of the wind direction.

However, you may like to make a note of the limitations on my (or any sailing boat's) manoevrability. I cannot sail closer much than 45 degrees (four points) to the true wind, (you will be feeling apparent wind but will have a guide to the true windand I really dislike turning downwind so far that I bring the wind on the other side, because that involves me in a gybe, which can restrict what I do for a few moments.

Hope this is some help.
 
I'm not even going to bother with rules n stuff ...
What I usually do in ANY potential collision situation is standon and see if the other vessel is going to alter course - at the time I believe it to be prudent I will make a noticeable turn to avoid collision (distance/time depends on the situation).

At 25-30knts my expectation would be that you would keep clear (small change in your course would give big clearance - small change in mine would still be collision!)
 
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at 20-30 knots, you shd surely take the initiative and turn away (preferably to port) so your skitrip is a series of right handed turns.


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ooo er
 
1. No
2. No
3. Assuming light winds, cos your not going to be skiing in half a gale, bothb should turn to Starboard and pass Port to Port. If the wind is up and the sailboat is close hauled, you definitely don't want to go too close to the windward side, specially if it's an average white boat. Give it an extra gust and she will accellerate, heel, turn and the rudder is unlikely to prevent a voluntary tack, right into your path.

In general, you are far more likely to be tucked in close to a weather shore, in flatter water that is too shallow for me, or in the designated water ski area.

Further, in everycase you can make a small deviation for a large effect, a sailboat could make a massive deviation with tiny effect (ie from cruising revs. to flat out say from 5.5 knots to 6 knots!!!).

We waterskiied for many years and always managed to keep well clear of anything hard that could splat the tow.
 
Don't have my Colregs on this PC but I thought they did include a vessel towing waterskiers etc giving way to everything? Will of course check..........

However most waterskiing occurs in areas covered by local byelaws or harbour regulations and everyone I have ever seen clearly states that craft towing waterskiers gives way to everything - mainly for the reasons given above and also because as the helm has a lot on his mind this helps simplfy his thought process!
 
[ QUOTE ]

both should turn to Starboard and pass Port to Port.


[/ QUOTE ] If the yacht is close hauled on a starboard tack it may not be able to turn to starboard as it will luff up.
I always take the opinion that I am going to carry on sailing my course and water skiers (or it will be wakeboarders now) choose to approach me so it's up to them to make sure they miss.
(Quite apart from the fact that I'm under sail and they are not)
As you point out, most skiers can see the big white flags we fly and are not too keen to spread their skier along our topsides.
 
questions 1 and 2 are classic examples mentioned in the colregs ..... you being a power boat (not restricted in her abilility to maneouver) is to keep clear.
q 3, again you are to keep clear (colregs), but in my opinion I would prefer you to pass well clear downwind .

as orwell would have written if he was a yachtsman today, there are no proper or improper boaters, all boats are equal but some boats are more equal than others .........

stirthepot.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Where does your skier display his diamond day shape?

[/ QUOTE ]

A tow under 200 meters doesnt need a day shape.(look a bit odd attatched to someones head anyway /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

Towing water skiers doesnt exempt you from the col regs a yacht under sail would expect you to keep clear other motorboats would treat you like any other motorboat.

Common sense tells you its wise to avoid close quarter situations at the speeds you need to be doing.

Skiers I come across generally seem to be considerate to other boats,probably due to the high chance of killing the person skiing if they hit anything!
 
I don't know about other areas but in and around the Solent there are several marked ski, windsail and jet ski areas. In those areas those activities have priority. It seems to work quite well. Like Graham I have seldom seen really silly water ski people. Natural selection in action I suppose. What I am really trying to say is don't take chances because nobody has ever injured or killed a boat.
 
[ QUOTE ]
1. no
2.no
3 to starboard if clear, or slow to almost stop until clear

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct - Next Question

The rules are there for a reason - don't second-guess them and don't try to wriggle round them.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The rules are there for a reason - don't second-guess them and don't try to wriggle round them.

[/ QUOTE ]

And no one has mentioned Rule 6:

"Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stpped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions."

If towing a skier means that you can't comply with Rule 6, then surely you shouldn't be towing a skier in that area?
 
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