Autopilots and automatic waypoint / heading change? Your thoughts?

Naturally, but having reviewed my earlier post, it still makes sense.

Basically, I'm challenging your assumption that to make autopilots that change course without reference to the skipper is OK. My belief is that it is a recipe for disaster. However, like Robin, I might agree to disagree with you. Which probably means that I haven't drunk enough yet.
 
The point has been missed here I think.....At the waypoint a course change is required. I would very much like my autopilot to do this for me instead of telling me to press a button. I know I'm at the waypoint and I know the next course. Why cant I just monitor the change of course? Why do I have to push a bl**dy button?
 
I don't think that I've missed the point, I have Raymarine gear that asks you to confirm a course change. My, and I believe others, point is that auto route changing requires a degree of vigilance that for you may be normal but may be dangerous in the hands of less experienced users.

Anyways up time to log off and adopt the foetal position prior to watching the Test highlights
 
"I don't think that I've missed the point, I have Raymarine gear that asks you to confirm a course change. My, and I believe others, point is that auto route changing requires a degree of vigilance that for you may be normal but may be dangerous in the hands of less experienced users."

Whats the difference here?

Is it safer to allow the unwary to miss the waypoint and career into some coastline because he wasn't paying attention? I wouldn't mind betting that, in the long run, the unwary would survive if the boat turned on its own.

There is NO substitute for training, and these days with these modern aids I fear that I am becoming a supporter of qualification, or at least so if you buy these high-tech toys for boats.

Pops
 
In the hands of a skilled user, with plenty of (loud!) warnings prior to any course change, then I'd say OK. Like you, I have severe misgivings that in the hands of the inexperienced, it could have many potential problems
 
Burp.

Well it is long after beer o'clock.

May the unwary read the manual and be competent in its use.

Regard, O knowledgeable one.

Pops
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is it safer to allow the unwary to miss the waypoint and career into some coastline because he wasn't paying attention? I wouldn't mind betting that, in the long run, the unwary would survive if the boat turned on its own.

[/ QUOTE ]

That way at least the probability is that he only wrecks his own boat. If he was distracted, dosed off or even down below otherwise occupied then the course change could maybe wreck someone elses boat or worse still do them serious harm.

Is there something in the genes of you fly boys that flies in the face of logic or is it the safety net of being in a 3-dimensional world and with an Air Traffic Controller who is on the ball? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Blimey, Robin, you white ensign guys!

"Is there something in the genes of you fly boys that flies in the face of logic or is it the safety net of being in a 3-dimensional world and with an Air Traffic Controller who is on the ball?"

There are very few instances where "0n-the-ball" ATC guys acshully have any control over what you do in an aeroplane, unless you are inside their relatively small amount of controlled airspace. Even then, the safety of your aircraft is paramount.

My theory, ahem (Monty Python) is that it might be better to risk the turn instead of the risk of running into a cliff. Most people's waypoints are plotted because of some nasty hard things in the way, not because they may have a boat at 3-o'clock at 20 yards when they are due to turn.

I don't THINK this is flying into the face of logic, but am happy to discuss at length having experience of both environments. My sailing experience is far less than my aviation, and I can adjust accordingly given the right advice and practise.

Over to you, you white ensign pooftah! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pops
 
Robin

Oh, by the way, I have the greatest respect for white ensign guys. I am inviting proper discussion and am a little light hearted and heavy on the lagavulin!

Pops
 
Mine already does! (2000+) although the book says it should do as others describe and bleep at me until I accept the new course. But not a bit of it. If It's in track mode and a waypoint is reached there is no alarm, I press no buttons, and it correctly follows the new course (taking a minute or so to sort itself out, so there's a bit of overshoot at the corner, and there are obviously places where that could be embarrassing.) Maybe mine has non-standard software installed or something.
 
Re: Meldrew speaks

My God Ken can you just imagine it - when the dam GPS/Autopilot starts to talk to you like an in car GPS

Beep, beep, beep beep - warning this vessel is about to change course - Beep beep - warning etc

And will probably keep doing it until you push a button.

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gifHowever I can see one advantage for yacht delivery - set the route into the GPS, engage the auto helm, start the engine and then get off - go to your intended destination and wait for the boat to arrive - handy if it's a bit bumpy. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hey we could expand this post considerably - we could link the radar into the gps and fit electronic engine controls, that way any perceived threat by the on-board computer and it could take avoiding action - we could run a program which has all the ColRegs in so the boat will behave itself - a little electric motor fitted to the flag staff could raise and lower the ensign at sunrise and sunset /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

We could all go sailing and never leave the safety of our armchairs.

The only downside I can see is that i like to go sailing and pushing a button once or twice when I arrive at a WP doesn't seem a lot to pay for the pleasure of "being out there".

God give me strength.

Peter.
 
[ QUOTE ]
My theory, ahem (Monty Python) is that it might be better to risk the turn instead of the risk of running into a cliff. Most people's waypoints are plotted because of some nasty hard things in the way, not because they may have a boat at 3-o'clock at 20 yards when they are due to turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

It might well be better for the boat that is on autopilot, but not necessarily so for the innocent victim on another boat maybe coming round for example the same buoy waypoint the other way, or even as someone else pointed out overtaking to one side from astern. Having to acknowledge the alarm beep before the pilot initiates the turn at least might suggest to the skipper that a quick look around to be SURE it is safe to turn might be a good idea.
 
White ensign?

[ QUOTE ]
Robin

Oh, by the way, I have the greatest respect for white ensign guys. I am inviting proper discussion and am a little light hearted and heavy on the lagavulin!

Pops

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Pops if you look in the ObserversBook of Flags you will see that I have as an avatar the ENGLISH flag, cross of St George not indeed a RYS white ensign. For some reason I have never been invited to join said hallowed establishment!

Oh and no I do not vote BNP nor am I a football hooligan, just proud to be English as well as British. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: Meldrew speaks

[ QUOTE ]
Call me old fashioned (actually, don't bother) but I rather enjoy steering boats. Don't really want some electricity doing it for me. It's one more thing that reduces sailing to travel, the bane of the 21st Century.

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It rather depends on how far you go. In our case there are us just two of us and despite the bus pass we do longer trips which without a pilot would be very tiring. Of course we could always take Brittany Ferries, I hear tell that they offer a pretty good service for when the wind gets up - I bet they have autopilots though. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Ah, but your airplane was flying in a zone which was nominally guaranteed clear of other traffic, and which was certainly a long way from rocks. Also, your waypoints had been tested many times, by many people, and were often defined by external navigation aids.

Robin has pointed out the key differences - the 'other traffic' situation, and the situation in which you're avoiding hard stuff.

He has developed routines to ensure the integrity of his route and waypoint entry before using route control, and even so he's nervous, and quite rightly.

Pilot error in selecting the appropriate modes of electronic systems is common, and the biggest threat to safety when an airplane or yacht gets near the hard stuff. Was the waypoint correctly entered? Was the machine selected to follow track, route or heading?

There are many layers of backup warnings in aircraft to catch these mis-selections and their equivalents. Not so in boats - which still rely on navigators second guessing what's going on.
 
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