Auto pilot for a Jeanneau 37.1

On the margins of a wheelpilot and a below decks type. The later preferred, but typically 3 times the price of a wheelpilot. £3k+ fitted compared with around £1k and an easy DIY job to fit. Raymarine is the dominant supplier, but Simrad, B&G and now Garmin are in the market with below decks types.

Good information on the Raymarine site to help understand the differences and make a choice.
 
I should, I suppose add that others' experiences with the wheelpilot (including my own) is not very satisfactory. A search here will bring up lots on the subject. This is partly due to its marginal capability on boats at the top end like the subject Jenny and my Bavaria 37 and partly because of what some see as poor design that leads to premature failure of the drive (electronics are fine - same as the more expensive models). On the other hand they are extensively used on charter boats in the Med and have a good reputation there, but parhaps because they are mostly used to keep the boat straight when motoring in flat calms!
 
We also have poor experience of the Wheel pilot (raymarine ST4000+) - it is slow to respond and in any quartering sea you end up doing a slalom course ... it's probably "ok" for general use - but irritates the hell out of me as I'm used to racing dinghies - straight line!!

It is fine in flat water - especially under engine.

We will (hopefully) eventually change to a quadrant driven AP - as this also gives a very useful backup to the steering system ...
 
We're about to fit a Raymarine wheelpilot and I've done a lot of research around the marina talking to people with first hand experience. The concensus seems to be that they are a perfectly fine option if you only intend to use it in fine weather conditions. They fall down if you try to run it in heavy seas or gusting winds.

So, it's really down to your intended use - it would never have occurred to me to trust my boat (and life) to any lump of electronics and servos in heavy seas with a wind gusting around 6 or 7 - it surprised me when people criticised the wheelpilot on the grounds that it could not cope with such conditions. I'm looking for something that can take over for five minutes while I trim the sails if shorthanded, or possibly half an hour while the wife and I have lunch at the cockpit table. Every wheelpilot owner I've spoken to agrees that they are up to that. If you have visions of setting the autopilot for longer periods in difficult conditions, then you probably need to go for the heavy duty linear drive systems - and pay an extra couple of grand.
 
Scotty_Tradewind said:
Are these retro-fit Auto/wheel pilots/helms easy to fit?
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Depends to some extent on your boat but in most cases wheel pilots are very easy. There's a relatively large disk carrying a gear wheel that bolts onto the spokes of your wheel, and a small servo motor assembly that bolts onto the base of the binnacle pillar. A drive belt runs from the servo to the disk on the steering wheel and you run power and control cables from the servo unit to the control head that mounts somewhere convenient for access while you are at the wheel. There's also a slightly larger black box that contains the computer and a smaller box that contains the fluxgate compass - these can be mounted anywhere convenient (well, the compass has to be kept clear of large lumps of metal). If you have a suitable chart plotter fitted, you can link the two so that the wheelpilot can follow a course programmed into the plotter. Without that, the control head just allows you to set a heading and the WP holds you on it until further notice.
 
Yes, the Raymarine manual goes into a fair amount of detail on how to set the autopilot up for both sailing and motor boats using differnt levels of sensativity for the differing requirements. FFIW, having seen folks in the liveaboard community having reliability problems with the wheelpilot versions, I would opt for the linear version for the drive, despite the higher cost. You may want to look at these links for a somewhat lower cost linear drive option, which will work with the Raymarine/Simrad course computers:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Combo-Lin...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item3f07f104a5

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Linear-Dr...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item3f07f104cb
 
Had the Raymarine ST6000 on my previous 38ft Bene - nice bit of kit. Previous owner had changed from the St4000+ as it wasn't too good in his opinion.

""Can their sensitivity be adjusted? ""

IIRR the ST6000 had a normal automatic adjust to sea conditions & a manual sensitivity setting too.
 
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Installation is relatively easy - comfortable day job. Some binnacles (like the Bavaria) need what is called a bulkhead mounting kit as you can't mount the bracket in the same way as on the more common Pedestal. Things to watch out for are making sure the motor is as far away from the steering compass as possible, although Raymarine say they have improved the shielding to reduce interference; finding a convenient place for the course computer - mine is in the aft cabin close to the binnacle so cable runs are easy to the control head and motor; locating the fluxgate compass and finally ensuring the drive ring is properly centred on the steering wheel (and the wheel is flat). Although it seems self centring, just minor differences in positioning of the mounting blocks can lead to stickiness when free.

In use there are lots of adjustments in the electronics and I am still experimenting with mine to try and reduce the amount of work it does, particularly motoring in lumpy water. Engagement is a bit awkward as you have to swing over a lever, and on the Bavaria there is very little space (linear drives just engage with the press of a button). The biggest negative is that the drive is not very robust - I have had two new ones fail after very few hours for the same reason. The drive gears are plastic, and they break. The unit is sealed and non servicable, and although Raymarine replaced both FOC it does not help when you are in the middle of the Med trying to get your boat home to UK.

Maybe I was unlucky, but if I were buying again I think I would bite the bullet and pay the extra for a linear drrive.
 
maby said:
<snip>it would never have occurred to me to trust my boat (and life) to any lump of electronics and servos in heavy seas with a wind gusting around 6 or 7 - it surprised me when people criticised the wheelpilot on the grounds that it could not cope with such conditions. I'm looking for something that can take over for five minutes while I trim the sails if shorthanded, or possibly half an hour while the wife and I have lunch at the cockpit table. Every wheelpilot owner I've spoken to agrees that they are up to that. If you have visions of setting the autopilot for longer periods in difficult conditions, then you probably need to go for the heavy duty linear drive systems - and pay an extra couple of grand.
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Advice is fine - but I'm surprised you're surprised at the criticism of the wheel pilots "heavy weather" capabilities - its more to do with sea state and gusts rather than just the pure wind strength (although there is a lot of correlation!) - Ours couldn't cope* with a straight course back from Cherbourg last year - despite there being very little wind - it was the sea state and angle of wave that caused the issue.

maby said:
Without that, the control head just allows you to set a heading and the WP holds you on it until further notice.
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Or rather - holds you on it - or there abouts - until further notice!! :p

* with a quartering sea the WP worked in that it steered an approximate course to the heading given - but the reaction time was too slow so we had quite an S in our course. With 2 crew we were perfectly able to steer by hand, but having to do this negates the benefit of a WP in my view. So despite the WP being a popular fit on our type of AWB I believe (and hope!) that the quadrant model is better - faster and more accurate ...
 
Undoubtedly the linear drives are better - just a lot more expensive and difficult to fit.

I was simply surprised that anyone would want to trust their boat to an autopilot in anything like difficult conditions. It's a case of horses for courses really - I suspect that our autopilot will be turned on for no more than twenty hours per year - certainly the tiller pilot on our previous boat saw only that sort of usage. Objectively speaking, it's quite difficult to justify the £1000 that a wheelpilot costs at that rate of usage - I would find it very difficult to justify £3000 for a high end linear drive pilot.
 
The other consideration is the noise, the wheel pilot is noisy and irritates the hell out of me and I end up steering cos I can't stand it!
 
maby said:
Undoubtedly the linear drives are better - just a lot more expensive and difficult to fit.

I was simply surprised that anyone would want to trust their boat to an autopilot in anything like difficult conditions. It's a case of horses for courses really - I suspect that our autopilot will be turned on for no more than twenty hours per year - certainly the tiller pilot on our previous boat saw only that sort of usage. Objectively speaking, it's quite difficult to justify the £1000 that a wheelpilot costs at that rate of usage - I would find it very difficult to justify £3000 for a high end linear drive pilot.
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Bit chicken and egg. If you had a better pilot you would use it. Reluctance to use the wheel pilot is because it is noisy, not very good at holding a course, uses a lot of power and always feels as if it is going to break (which it does - or at least mine did). The linear drive units are used successfully by many long distance sailors in all conditions.

Somewhat ironically I had the even cruder 3000 type on the boat to start with and it was actually better, but not very powerful and the belt got in the way. "Upgraded" to a 4000, then SPX thinking they might be even better. Disappointed.
 
maby said:
I was simply surprised that anyone would want to trust their boat to an autopilot in anything like difficult conditions.
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Well - should a quartering sea be "difficult" ?? It's not as though you're leaving it completely - its just putting someone else on the helm ...
When single handing it gets used quite a bit because I can't stand behind the wheel and hoist the main or trim the sails ...
When two up it gets used a bit - but not as much ...
More than that there's generally enough crew to take turns ... :)

As for "difficult" conditions - if I'm busy helming whilst the other crew is otherwise engaged there may be a minute where I need both hands to adjust something - its nice to be able engage autopilot and get on with the job rather than disturbing the crew ...

Oh - another slight benefit of the quadrant drive (linear or hydrolic) - engaging AP is a case of pressing the Auto button - on the Wheel Pilot you have to engage the clutch first ... a minor niggle - but still a niggle....

Granted, its hard to justify the extra cost - but IMHO it's probably worth it...
 
other issue with my wheel auto was the clutch would work its way off , often at the most inopportune moment, ended up putting a bugee loop on it to hold it in place.
 
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