Aubrey/Maturin views please

[jonjo]

Re: PO\'B the dark side

I abandoned my first PO'B novel part way into a tedious rope by rope, stay by stay tour of the rigging of a British navel ship.

Soon after I read a newspaper article that exposed the darker side of POB's 20th century life. He deserted his wife and infant child during WWII, and then spun an illusion about his involvement with SOE during the war. During a rare TV interview the man also came over as pompous twit.

At this point I felt justified in disliking the author and his books.

Anyhow PO'B fans really should read the recent YW account of the elderly author cruising on a classic super yacht provided free of charge by its American multi millionaire owner by way of a thank you for his enjoyment of the books.

On a superficial note it seems PO'B was inept on the helm, which can be forgiven, but of more interest PO'B was completely incapable of estimating how far a sailing ship could travel in a day. This later fact left the American owner puzzled as to how PO’B could sequence a maritime saga.

Anyhow following the YM article I have decided that I am missing out on something special and the books warrant a second attempt by me.

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[StugeronSteve]

Re: PO\'B the dark side

Was the article in the Gaurdian? I can recall reading one (poss in a weekend supplement), which didn't paint a particularly flattering picture of O'Brian. He would probably have forgiven himself for his poor seamanship, as I understood that he believed Maturin bore many "autobiograhical" resemblances, O'Brian being something of an amateur naturalist and having an SOE "past" etc.



<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[JamesS]

What a coincidence - have just read my first two after a lifetime of Richard Bolitho!

On a technical point, I see he often refers to boat speed as (say)'six knots and two fathoms'

Surely even a modern day electronic log is not that accurate!

Cheers

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[Metabarca]

Re: PO\'B the dark side

I came across the report on the Internet and yes, O'B was probably not that nice a guy (in fact, not at all nice, I suspect). But then, Michelangelo was a primadonna and Cellini a murderer but that doesn't stop us enjoying their works.

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[StugeronSteve]

"Surely even a modern day electronic log is not that accurate!"

Interesting point, I really have no idea how accurate a log line would have been when operated by experienced hands. I suspect it was probably far better than my digital job, which purports to give my speed to the n'th decimal place, whilst being totally unable to outwit a bit of sea weed.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[Mirelle]

Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

T'was I who pointed that slip out, a while back.

There are plenty more, for example Maturin's watch is alway described as a Breguet; Breguet was indeed the leading watchmaker of the day (many horologists would say, of any day) but "sweet oil" after an immersion in sea water would not restore one. They are incredibly delicate masterpieces of the watchmakers art, with very tiny parts. It might help save a cheap pair cased verge, the everyday watch of the period, perhaps. I've got one of the latter but not in my wildest dreams could I afford even the humblest "souscription" Breguet!

I doubt the authenticity of the, frankly Baroque, dialogue. Were it authentic, would we not find it in Austen, Fielding and Richardson?

Having said which, I enjoy the books, and I liked the film even more - I hope the rumours that another film is in the making are true.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Mirelle on 13/09/2004 11:32 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Nickel]

Re: Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

But are you saying that because it was a Breguet they wouldn't put it in sweet-oil - I do not recall O'B ever claiming any ancient magical properties for sweet-oil. This seems to be questionable criticism, and to describe it as a school-boy howler rather outlandish.

As for the dialogue - who can tell: even today [and it would have far more the case then] the dialogue of a half catalan irishman with a naval officer who has been at seas since he was nine would vary massively from Austen, brought up as she was entirely in a genteel house in Hampshire. Her dialogue would have varied massively from the peasant farmers two miles down the road! The comparison is not realistic. Nor is it relevant, because - who can tell?

The question is, the real test is: Does the dialogue feel authentic? Does it suit the characters created? Is the author consistent with it? Does it enhance the narrative?

In all respects the answer is yes.

O'Brian himself in his Eau de Cologne example admits of the possibility, even the probability of error. But whether we can scour through his vast work and find the odd anachronism is not the point. As a piece of fiction, the point is - he has created an incredibly believable world which feels compellingly real to the reader.

It is only because he is so good at what he has tried to achieve that people try and nit-pick so much, and in a way, I think that's sad.

<hr width=100% size=1>Nickel

Being paranoid simply means - having all the facts.

 

[Mirelle]

Drinkwater

I am another fan of this series; it's pretty obvious why it has not done as well as O'Brian in the US market - the books are set at the time of the Revolutionary War and include accounts of American atrocities, but they are good fun and plausible.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[Mirelle]

Re: Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

"...the real test is: Does the dialogue feel authentic? Does it suit the characters created? Is the author consistent with it? Does it enhance the narrative?"

Much as I enjoy reading the books, I would have to answer "no" to your first two questions, and "yes" to the last pair. Aubrey and Maturin do live in country houses, and let's remember what Jane Austen's brothers Frank and Charles did for a living - they were both Naval officers who rose to be Admirals - Frank was described by Nelson as "an excellent young man!"

The dialogue is fun, and intended, I think, to be fun, but I don't think O'Brian intended a realistic portrayal of English as spoken by Naval officers of the day.

The "schoolboy howlers" crop up because O'Brian was writing at speed, and did not bother to check. Can't blame him for that. The books are fun to read, but let's not get carried away - they are "airport literature", not "masterpieces".



<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

I've enjoyed them since I started reading them, initially as a Hornblower substitute and then as good books in their own right. I still recall a comment by an English master at prep school "Dostoevsky is great literature, O'Brien a great read, which will you do for pleasure?"

The film was a bit disappointing, but no more so than Gregory Peck as Hornblower umpty years earlier, however I did find Crowe and Bettany's portrayal of Aubrey and Maturin very convincing, or at least as I imagined them, a professional who is an innocent reprobate in his spare time and a tortured intellectual who has seen much of what he believed in destroyed by unscrupulous and greedy men.

Just ignore the erratic timeline from 1812 to 1815, the average speed of travel might be interesting to calculate, in a time when a trip to Australia could take 6 months on its own, regardless of time on deserted Antartic islands and intriguing in Boston.

Never really got on with Ramage, but Sharpe's Trafalgar is quite a good yarn as well.

<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.

 

[Mirelle]

The film

That's about what I think, too. Good fun books. But I did enjoy the film - I thought Crowe and Bettany were splendid, it was nice to have a Hollywood film in which sex did NOT rear its ugly head (apart from the bantering with the girls in the canoes, included to show that Aubrey is not gay, I assume!) and the sense of being afloat in a little wooden world was well conveyed.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[Mirelle]

Arthur Ransome

Oh, yes, no contest!

But AR does come pretty close to being "literature"!

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[OldDevonian]

Re: Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

The timelines may be a little dodgy, but nothing compared to Crowe in "Gladiator", who rode a horse from Germany to Spain in an afternoon.

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[jenku]

Re: PO\'B the dark side

I also am a fan. I have read the whole series and already ordered the last unfinished part to be published in October. I also have read all the Bolithos, Hornblowers, Merewethers and am currently into the Ramages.
I do like the O'Brian novels best, followed of Pope and Forester. Kent is far too predictable and I am getting increasingly annoyed with his characters talking to themselves all the time.

That said I was quite a bit disappointed when I read the article in YW. I actually can not understand this thing about him missjudging the distances. Somebody has said it before: the time travelled, distances and speeds ususally are correct in the books. As he is able to get them right in the book he never should be making these misjudgements. I can only think of two possible explanations (disregarding the possibility of him plainly being senile at the time). Either could he have been so involved in that time (he somewhere stated that he really was not this good at "modern" things), that he just thought today's yachts would sail much faster than the ships of the Nelson era.
Or could he be joking. I am inclined to think the latter. He was just pulling this American's leg (who actually states several times in the article that he found it difficult to follow O'Brian intellectually - despite having a MIT degree...).

Anyway, I got a bit depressed by the article. All this stuff about him really being English, deserting his wife and not being able to sail. But of course the books are still great. But maybe next time i read them I will be a bit more observant...

And BTW, there is a O'Brian novel where the Surprise is in the Baltic...





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[Keen_Ed]

Re: Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

Or Kevin Costner in Robin Hood, who walked from Dover to Hadrian's Wall in a day.

Personally, I think that POB is a wonderful writer, even if he was not a very nice man. The series might not be great literature, but it is most definately great writing - I can't see how anybody could put down Desolation Island while reading the chase between the horrible old Leopard and the Waakzaamheid, for example.

So, why is a dog watch so called?

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[jenku]

Re: Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

Because it's cur-tailed.

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[Nickel]

Re: Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

Apologies, but I can't let the 'airport literature' go!

O'Brian will never be considered 'literature' because his books are rather too popular, too idiosyncratic, and not pretentious enough, but to describe them as 'airport literature' is beyond the pale. They are collectively a superb work, and a superb achievement by one unhappy man. I have to say they walk all over Arthur Ransome - but then I cam to him late, as an adult, and I found his style trite and cramped.

Austen's brothers were naval officers, but she never wrote a story about life on a navy ship at the time.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this - but then there are in my experience, three types of people in the world: those who can't get into PO'B at all, those who quite enjoy the books 'but prefer Hornblower'! And those who appreciate them properly! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Five mates and I [three who sail, three who don't] regularly attend the pub and PO'B is a stangely regular topic, even though there two in each of the above camps.!

<hr width=100% size=1>Nickel

Being paranoid simply means - having all the facts.

 

[walker]

Re: Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

I have no view on O'Brian, not doing historical literature, but with so many discerning literary (or airporterary) minds virtually gathered, may I ask whether anyone could offer (slightly off-thread) recommendations for 'modern' (2nd half of C20 say) nautical literature.

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[jimi]

Re: Thames Tonnage and other schoolboy howlers

Wreck of the Mary Deare

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[jenku]

Liteature or not...

An interesting thing here is that Patrick OBrian is said to have quite a lot of female readers. Kent, Forester and the like don't. Altough this is not a proof of him being a better writer, it indicates that his books not really play in the same league as the other "sea stories". The Aubrey/Maturin series focuses much more on characters and much less on action. Just look at the battle scenes. In most naval fiction books these are very thorough and long. Every cut and stab and shot is accounted for. O'Brian on the other hand handles a sea battle on a few pages and then lets Maturin attend the wounded on far more.



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